NYJetsFan.com Forums: Xbox 2 Or Playstation 3? - NYJetsFan.com Forums

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER

SECRETS AND LIES NOTHING BUT SECRETS AND LIES!!
azjetfan Icon : (03 March 2015 - 01:10 PM) Ryan is not a Bozo he is a cartoon character.
Chaos Icon : (03 March 2015 - 01:15 PM) anyone know anything about CB Kareem Jackson?
Chaos Icon : (03 March 2015 - 01:15 PM) FA from Houston. Obvious Mac connection.
ganggreen2003 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 02:33 PM) NO TO MEVIS NO TO MEVIS
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 03:26 PM) FIRE MACCAGNAN
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 03:26 PM) FIRE BOWLES
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 03:26 PM) CONSTANT TURNOVER
azjetfan Icon : (03 March 2015 - 03:43 PM) I think we need to fire more people. Like Justin Beiber
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 04:22 PM) Kareem Jackson is a decent player, I would rather go elsewhere for CB though> He has been a streaky player, some bad seasons some good
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 06:23 PM) THE KNICKS
Chaos Icon : (03 March 2015 - 06:43 PM) @AdamSchefter: Filed to ESPN: Bills have notified LB Kiko Alonso he is going to be traded to Philadelphia for RB LeSean McCoy. Trade official next week.
Chaos Icon : (03 March 2015 - 06:43 PM) WOW. Rex is gearing up for ground and pound.
Chaos Icon : (03 March 2015 - 06:44 PM) Jets can sign Spiller now but they're going to need a new LB. Rex is gunning for David Harris.
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:44 PM) Jets should trade Harris to Minnesota for Minnesota for AP
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:44 PM) Throw in Ivory/Powell or a pick
ganggreen2003 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:45 PM) Damn they got Shady
ganggreen2003 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:45 PM) Do NOT give up Ivory
ganggreen2003 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:45 PM) Powell ok Ivory HELL NO
ganggreen2003 Icon : (03 March 2015 - 07:50 PM) Well that definitely opens the door for CJ Spiller to the JETS now that the Jills got Shady
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:12 AM) Spiller is a joke. 99 % of the time he gets tackled for a loss or a 1 or 2 yard gain maximum. He breaks a run here and there. he had one good year in his whole career. their is a reason he is a backup and not the starter. I suggest you guys that believe Spiller has anything to offer go through the play by play game logs. I did and he is horrendous.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:14 AM) Spiller cannot break a tackle period. I broke down last years game logs of his runs in a thread last year. He isn't even a pass catching rb. Fred Jackson catches most of the running back passes.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:20 AM) Unless Spiller comes tremendously cheap no thank you. Wouldn't pay more than a one year deal worth 1 million at most. All he has is speed. Not even on Sproles level. His stats are inflated. For instance he has 10 runs in a game and 9 of them are losses are or 1-2 yard runs. Then he breaks one on the outside for 40-70 yards. Not reliable at all. Even when he break one he is guaranteed a td
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:21 AM) Even in his 1200 yard rushing year he only had 6 tds rushing and 2 receiving
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:23 AM) Spiller is only valuable as a special teams player. Period By year 2010 ) tds rshng 1 rcvng 283 yards rshng
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:31 AM) meant 0 tds rushing in 2010, 2011 4 tds 561 yards rushing 2tds receiving, 2012 6tds 1244 rushing 2 tds receiving, 2013 2tds 933 yards rushing 0tds receiving, 2014 0tds 300 yards rushing 1td receiving.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:41 AM) His stats look decent on paper but if you actually go through the game logs of his career like I did his stats are extremely inflated. For instance one game last year he had 10 attempts for 8 yards another 4 attempts for -4 yards, another 6 attempts for 19 yards, another 10 attempts for 25 yards.Another game he had 12 games for 69 yards but 47 of it was on one play. Point is he sucks as a running back. Who wants a rb that gets stopped 99% of the time and breaks one play fir a long run. We need reliable backs not a slim chance of him breaking one
santana Icon : (Yesterday, 08:06 AM) "NFL released its first 2015 League Year cap report to teams. Teams w/most room: 1) Jaguars $64.058M; 2) Jets $52.901; 3) Raiders $52.598M."
santana Icon : (Yesterday, 08:06 AM) #2 baby
santana Icon : (Yesterday, 08:07 AM) WE DID IT!
santana Icon : (Yesterday, 08:07 AM) thnx idzik
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (Yesterday, 08:09 AM) RE-HIRE IDZIK
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (Yesterday, 08:10 AM) Well in all fairness, when I think about the Jets I do think about number two
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 08:30 AM) FIRE MACCAGNAN
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 08:30 AM) The Jaguars hired John Idzik for his expertise in contract negotiating
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 08:36 AM) ppl are going to get paid this offseason.
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 08:36 AM) so many teams have space
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 08:39 AM) eagles have 48M in cap space. Chip is going to go HAM this offseason.
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 12:35 PM) @RapSheet: The #Bills have traded for Matt Cassel, the team announced.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 12:43 PM) rex is gearing up his team
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 12:43 PM) a QB that won't turn it over. 2 stud Rbs for ground and pound and will now start building his defense
azjetfan Icon : (Yesterday, 01:49 PM) McCoys agent said the trade is not final and he hinted that he may not be willing to play there.
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 04:41 PM) @KristianRDyer: Source: If Marcus Mariota is at No. 6, Eagles will make trade with #Jets http://www.metro.us/...-mCQODxZ1xjBVA/ … via @metronewyork #NYJets
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:18 PM) Jets bringing in Kendall Langford and CHris Canty for visits
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:20 PM) Cassel blows
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 08:07 PM) I wouldn't mind trading down personally
Resize Shouts Area

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Xbox 2 Or Playstation 3?

Poll: What would you rather have XBox 2 or Playstation 3? (17 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you rather have XBox 2 or Playstation 3?

  1. XBox 2 (7 votes [41.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.18%

  2. Playstation 3 (8 votes [47.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.06%

  3. THEY BOTH SUCK!!!! (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. I WANT BOTH!!! (2 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   Chaos Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 3,132
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 May 2005 - 05:09 PM

what do you guys think? XBox 2 or Playstation 3?

personally i would like both but XBox 2 looks better.
0

#2 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 17 May 2005 - 05:48 PM

I have been a PlayStation buyer since the start, so PS3 has got to be my choice.
0

#3 User is offline   Maynard13 Icon

  • 2005 Best Signature
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,142
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 17 May 2005 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE (JetsFreak2851 @ May 17 2005, 04:44 PM)
what do you guys think? XBox 2 or Playstation 3?

personally i would like both but XBox 2 looks better.


ditto


0

#4 User is offline   ManginiIsMyHero Icon

  • Line Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 831
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:Brewster, NY. Currently PSU
  • Interests:Jets Football, Mets Baseball, parties, gaming, and programming.

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 17 May 2005 - 11:14 PM

Xbox 360! Get it right chico. Also I only chose Xbox becuase I hate Sony's consols. But in actuality I cannot wait for the Revolution to begin. In cas eyou didnt know that is the nintendo console coming out when PS3 comes out. It will truely own. Not much has been said but dont be surprised if you wet yourself when you hear all about it. I have my rumors (and they are pretty good sources), but I prefer not to say anything since Nintendo hasnt confirmed anything. This year's E3 will own me and the new Zelda (the Twilight Princess) will be the most amazing game ever made (just like Ocarina of Time was for 64). Enjoy!
I changed my name, but I dont remember what it was... if anyone remembers please let me know.
0

#5 User is offline   Maynard13 Icon

  • 2005 Best Signature
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,142
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE (Maynard13 @ May 17 2005, 06:22 PM)


Whoops my bad, I meant to quote jetsruledaworld, PS3 looks better!!@!


0

#6 User is offline   MikeGangGreenFan2 Icon

  • THE KNICKS
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,704
  • Joined: 08-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida.used to live in NY.
  • Interests:playing football
    watching the yankees WIN
    playing video games
    and a shit load of other things.

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:22 AM

ps3 i think is better
0

#7 User is offline   bobzero11 Icon

  • Line Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 767
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:50 PM

From the NYTimes... need an account (which is free) to view the article...
NYTimes - Nintendogs vs. Gangs

May 23, 2005
A Video Match: The Nintendogs vs. Gangs, Thugs and Wars
By ROBERT LEVINE

At the Electronics Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles last week, the demonstration booth for Nintendo seemed like an island of innocence amid the retorts of digitized gunfire.

While most game publishers showed sequels, sports simulations and shooting games based on grim tropes such as gang violence and World War II, Nintendo was promoting, among other games, Nintendogs. It lets players raise and train virtual pets on the Nintendo DS, the dual-screen hand-held game machine released last year.

Developed by Shigeru Miyamoto, who created the Mario Brothers and Legend of Zelda franchises, Nintendogs is exactly the kind of game the company is known for: addictive, odd and more than a little cute. Nintendo's Game Boy and DS systems dominate the market for hand-held games, and it just announced that it would introduce Game Boy Micro, a sleek, pocket-size machine, this fall.

But the focus at the expo was on the console business, where Nintendo lags. In part because of its image as a console for children, Nintendo's GameCube has only 20 percent of the market in the United States, trailing the PlayStation 2 from Sony by a large margin and the Xbox from Microsoft by a smaller one, according to the NPD group, a market research firm.

"It is not sufficient when it comes to market share," said Satoru Iwata, the president of Nintendo, speaking through a translator in an interview. "But market share is not everything; think about profitability."

For the last two fiscal years, Nintendo's operating margin has been about 25 percent, according to the company. Sony's games business is profitable, but Microsoft's has lost money.

Last week, Sony unveiled its PlayStation 3 and Microsoft showed off its Xbox 360, both of which will feature high-definition video and impressive processing power.

When Nintendo introduced its next console, the Revolution, it avoided talking about specifications, but implicitly conceded that the machine might be less technically impressive than its competitors.

"It has the power of a Ferrari, and they are talking about Saturn rockets," said Mr. Iwata, referring to the three consoles. "But we are traveling on earth."

Instead of superior technology, he said, Nintendo would set itself apart as it has in the past, with imaginative games. The company is the second-largest game seller in the United States, behind Electronic Arts. But that advantage could be hard to maintain as consumer tastes change. Over the last five years, Mario has lost market share to the thugs of Grand Theft Auto as the audience for video games has gotten older and the games themselves have moved into the mainstream of pop culture.

The Revolution will move Nintendo even farther away from the other two console makers. Both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 represent components of a parent company's master media plan. Sony's console, for example, will use the proprietary Blu-ray DVD format.

Nintendo is interested only in selling games, and the Revolution will need an extra attachment even to play regular DVD's. However, Revolution will play classic Nintendo games from the 80's and 90's that will be available for downloading, including Super Mario Brothers and Metroid.

"They're bobbing while everyone else is weaving," said Scott Steinberg, a vice president of Sega America, which makes games for all consoles. "They've always been about family entertainment, not just technology."

But even with its own popular titles, Nintendo will need support from such outside game makers. It will have to convince them that it can maintain enough market share to make their products viable. Some games, such as the 2K Sports series, are made only for PlayStation and Xbox.

"For a company like Activision, it's less about the market share and more about the economic model," said Kathy Vrabeck, president of Activision Publishing. The question, she said, was whether it made sense to release titles on a third console. "To date, on our older skewing titles for hardcore gamers, the answer is: yes, it is."

Hit games are crucial to console sales. "This is an industry where younger consumers aspire up," said Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing at Nintendo of America, and any machine seen as a mere toy could be shunned. He pointed out that releases like "The Legend of Zelda" appealed to hardcore gamers in their 20's and 30's, some of whom played the early games when they were children.

"I think we were unfairly pigeonholed as a child's system, and I don't think we successfully challenged that," he said. He wants to expand Nintendo's market share by drawing in people who aren't traditional gamers with products that are not traditional games. One recent GameCube title, "Donkey Konga," came with a set of bongo drums that players had to hit in time to music and cues on-screen.

"They're really pushing innovation in game play," said J Allard, who oversees the Xbox business for Microsoft. "But they didn't reveal enough about Revolution for me to have an opinion."

In effect, Nintendo is betting that the games of the future will not demand more power than the Revolution delivers, according to Michael Pachter, a research analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities. "But I think they're wrong. It's a macho business." Even so, he said, he was impressed with the creativity of Nintendogs, which he described as brilliant.

It would seem that Nintendo's products are aimed at the child in all of us. At the end of the interview, Mr. Iwata took out a Nintendo DS running a product in development, in which math equations ran up the screen and players had to solve them quickly. The software will be able to track players' scores over the course of a day, week or month.

"My mother is playing with this now," Mr. Iwata said. "I think Nintendo is the only publisher in the world that is willing to make this kind of application."
IPB Image<<<Don't know how to update this thing...
0

#8 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,721
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:06 PM

Good post. I watched a few things from G4TV on E3 and Nintendo is lagging. It probably pushed itself out of the market. Its graphics are worse then the xbox. Only slightly better then the GC was. Xbox360 had by far the best graphics. The madden video was amazing.
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#9 User is offline   DSAzeppelin Icon

  • Free Agent
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 30-May 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 30 May 2005 - 03:33 AM

I am going with PS3


besides the fact that I just like playstation better than xbox(even though xbox is a better macine)....

but PS3 beats the Xbox360 in every single category spec wise. So you already have a stronger, faster, more capable machine. Also the 360 is using a brand new water cooling system along with their tri-processors and ati cards(which run hot normally)...so if they dont have all the kinks worked out in their water cooling system, the 360 will start to bog down, loose performance...and lag...etc...which wouldnt be good. Plus the Xbox wont be using the blueray technology, which is suppost to become industry standard within the next 3-5 years...so that blows.

plus I just like the PS3.

if I can save enough money to afford a 360...then that means I could earn enough for a PS3 aswell....because there are afew 360-exclusive titles that have caught my eye....

Both are great machines...I'm not saying Xbox sucks...but Sony has beat them this year spec wise....on paper atleast.
0

#10 User is offline   Alcatraz Icon

  • Drafted Rookie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 112
  • Joined: 28-May 05
  • Location:Washington, D.C

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 30 May 2005 - 02:00 PM

Xbox360 why I wont go into it
0

#11 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,721
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 08:41 AM

Actually your wrong. Side by side the xbox has better specs and overall grapics. The only thing supposedly better on the PS3 is the lighting effects but me as well as several of my better informed friends (computer programmers, IT managers) say that the xbox 360 looks better . also I should add 3 3.2GHz processors. That’s crazy. When they seen the PS3 had one they were all like lets see xbox top that. So they said ok and did 3 of them.
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#12 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

  • Special Teams
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 256
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:Winter Park, FL

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 10:49 AM

both of you are wrong
either system has advantages and disadvantages
i know i have a spec sheet post or two on why in the Halo? Metroid? Red Faction? thread
but again ill say this
xbox is more powerful
playstation is quicker
nintendo is to be determined
Member Since March 26th 2004

IPB Image
0

#13 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,721
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 12:06 PM

Xbox is quicker. It has 3 3.2GHz processors while the PS3 has only one of them. I’m right because its not my words pretending to understand what most of the stuff means (I have basic knowledge only) but rather IT managers and computer programmers
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#14 User is offline   DSAzeppelin Icon

  • Free Agent
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 30-May 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 03:16 PM

Processor
PS3 :3.2GHz Cell w/ 7 SPEs 2.0 TFLOPS
Xbox 360 :3.2GHz G5 w/ 3 Cores 1.0 TFLOPS

Memory
PS3 :256MB XDR @ 3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 @ 700MHz
Xbox 360 :512MB GDDR3 @ 700MHz 10MB Embedded DRAM

GPU
PS3 :550MHz NVIDIA
Xbox 360 :500MHz ATi

Display
PS3 :1080p Standard Dual Screen Output
Xbox 360 :1080i Optional Single Screen Output
0

#15 User is offline   DSAzeppelin Icon

  • Free Agent
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 30-May 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 03:22 PM

Xbox is pushing almost 1 Tflop...its not a true Tflop

PS3 is at 1.9 Tflops....

so you have an entire level PS3 beats the Xbox in that sense. And thats with a single chip. Xbox requires 3 processors to reach that same level. Just because it has more processors doesnt mean its automatically quicker. The processor cell PS3 uses has a mulitple layer pipeline which makes it faster.

3.2ghz memory over 700mhz ....plus from what I've heard, the embedded dram is actually slower and does not transfer information in/out at the same time as efficient. But thats what I've heard.

The Nvidia chip is better period...not just because of the 50 extra Mhz...but the new technology it uses is pretty crazy...I dont know all the details...but they released afew press conferences with Nvidia afew months ago and at E3. The Ati chip is a good chip, but it runs hot, and is prone to bog down and lag in its data transfer rate, so its possible it wont run as efficiently. It may run perfect...but there is always the chance the heat will get to it.

Plus you can hook up 2 HDTV's to a PS3 *sigh*
0

#16 User is offline   DSAzeppelin Icon

  • Free Agent
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 30-May 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 03:29 PM

both systems are pretty badass if you ask me.

I want to get both....if I can afford it...if not I am going with the PS3.

I just dont buy how most people say "The Xbox360 blows the PS3 out of the water....its so much better...PS3 cant even touch what the 360 can do"

mmm that statement is pure BS....show me something that the 360 does that BLOWS the PS3 away....

from what I know...and from what I'm looking at. The systems are overall equal...if not the the PS3 slightly better.
0

#17 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 31 May 2005 - 03:34 PM

The only thing that makes XBOX so much worse then PlayStation is that XBOX games are not in the same league as PS games. XBOX does probably have the best graphics today, but only if the games were actually worth playing. Also the XBOX controllers suck ass, compared to the PS controllers.

PS > Xbox
0

#18 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

  • Special Teams
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 256
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:Winter Park, FL

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 08:51 PM

jetfan115 you forget that i as well am a console programmer, [my buddy DSA can back me up that. full sail in da hizouse!] and know a thing or to about processing speeds
do my words mean nothing to you cause im not your friend?
just look at the teraflop processing speed
pure specs
matter of fact
PS3 has Xbox360 in at least that category
you cant deny it
and if you do ima do something i just might regret

DSA you forget though that nvidia is not a pure power chip and the reason why it runs cooler than ATI is because it doesnt use all of its horses
thats probably why the PS3 went up an extra 50 MHz with the chips
to compensate for the power
Member Since March 26th 2004

IPB Image
0

#19 User is offline   DSAzeppelin Icon

  • Free Agent
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 30-May 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 31 May 2005 - 10:26 PM

"DSA you forget though that nvidia is not a pure power chip and the reason why it runs cooler than ATI is because it doesnt use all of its horses
thats probably why the PS3 went up an extra 50 MHz with the chips
to compensate for the power"


that is a good point...I totally forgot to put that into the equation


god you're so smart...you amaze me *sigh*
0

#20 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,721
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 01 June 2005 - 08:23 AM

Well then tell me which one you think is the better machine only. Not games controllers etc. like I said I’m not an expert and I know a lot of people hate Microsoft and lie to the point the some people were trying to tell me the PS2 was better then the xbox (redicolous statement) so yes I trust my PC savvy friends over people on a forum no offense to anyone here though. Wouldn’t u do the same? and from my eyes only i think so far the xbox360 vids look way better then the PS3 vids. and honostly 90% of the people here including me (not including u) never even heard the word teraflop till all this. it was never mentioned on either last gen system in the specs.
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users