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Peter King & Reader On Kellen Clemens

#41 User is offline   tipceey Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:54 PM

i'm eager to see Clemens start but I wouldnt count out Chad having a great season next year.......i dunno what it is but pennington seems to love being backed into a corner and responds..But schotty is a great at coaching QBs...think of what he did for brees and rivers.......Clemens seems like he's going to continue that trend
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#42 User is offline   Hey Coach Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:22 PM

We havent seen Clemens do jack.
Whats with all the love from you guys for Clemens?
How do you fans know what Clemens can and cannot do?
Are you guys just speculating on what Peter King says about the kid?
I trust Mangini in any decision he makes about who out starting QB will be. drinks.gif
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#43 User is offline   kobeskool Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Mangini`s Jets @ Jan 24 2007, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We havent seen Clemens do jack.
Whats with all the love from you guys for Clemens?
How do you fans know what Clemens can and cannot do?
Are you guys just speculating on what Peter King says about the kid?
I trust Mangini in any decision he makes about who out starting QB will be. drinks.gif



did you read any of the scouting reports he smart and has a strong arm. If he didnt get hurt his senior year he probalby would have been one of the first qb taken in last years draft
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#44 User is offline   Hey Coach Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE (kobeskool @ Jan 25 2007, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
did you read any of the scouting reports he smart and has a strong arm. If he didnt get hurt his senior year he probalby would have been one of the first qb taken in last years draft

Oh so he should start just because of a scouting report?
Have you seen any playing time with Clemens besides the Pre- Season?
I`ve just havent seen him play enough to go on the Pro Clemens bangwagon yet.
I dont care what a scouting report says about the kid. There have been so many QBs comming out of the draft with a great report and sucked.
I need proof before we king Clemens as our (Jets ) Starter.
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#45 User is offline   kobeskool Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE (Mangini`s Jets @ Jan 24 2007, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh so he should start just because of a scouting report?
Have you seen any playing time with Clemens besides the Pre- Season?
I`ve just havent seen him play enough to go on the Pro Clemens bangwagon yet.
I dont care what a scouting report says about the kid. There have been so many QBs comming out of the draft with a great report and sucked.
I need proof before we king Clemens as our (Jets ) Starter.

no i didnt say he should start because of a scouting report i said thats why i think he is gonna be good. anothet reason is because magini would not have passed on leinart, young abd cutler if he didnt think clemens would be special.
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (kobeskool @ Jan 25 2007, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
no i didnt say he should start because of a scouting report i said thats why i think he is gonna be good. anothet reason is because magini would not have passed on leinart, young abd cutler if he didnt think clemens would be special.
Than Clemans must be special cuz you say so,but i`m glad Mangini drafted Ferguson and Mangold ahead of your new up and coming Brad Smith hysterical.gif . Just chill lil man i`m just stating my opinion.
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#47 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Jan 24 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's hard to digest that post when it's over-seasoned with sarcasm.

You're right, Clemens could be awful. But he could also be great. One thing we do know, Chad is awful and he is directly responsible for 2 losses this year, Jax and Chi. And I'm not even gonna talk about the game changing fumble from Chad that caused us to lose out on the WC game this year. Or the pick for 6. Or the... well you get the idea.

Point is this, some people are afraid of change. Afraid of the unknown, and Clemens is an unknown. Well Pennington was an unknown and he lit up the league the year he started. However, that was because defenses didn't know he had a noodle arm. It's impossible to deny that he's got a weak arm! IMPOSSIBLE! And it's also impossible to deny that CBs jump all over the routes, destroy our WRs over the middle, and call Chad the weakest armed QB in the league. That's a published article where they love playing against Chad Pennington. Facts! Another fact, he's horrible against Top 10 defenses. Wanna know why? Top 10 defenses can defend his crappy short throws with less help from the safeties so they can stack the box and play short routes.

His time is done. Lets not get emotional about this. He doesn't have the NFL that this team needs. Clemens does. Clemens is smart. Clemens can also scramble. Don't fear change. Change is good. Change might actually equal a Superbowl visit one of these years, something that will never happen with an inconsistent QB. I mean did we all just forget about all the horrible passes he threw all year that were no where near the receivers? Are we forgetting that he didn't throw the ball well at all? That's Chad Pennington. He's not a good QB. He's a good leader, but I for one am sick of seeing noodle arm QBs.


Of course the post was full of sarcasm. You're basing all your claims on your own personal bias against Pennington and believing that your opinions are facts. Like I said before you give Chad all the credit for the losses but then the credit for the wins go to anybody but Chad and that's not biased? Either give him the credits for the wins too or don't give him any credit at all and that includes the losses. You can't have it both ways.

This is the line I found most funny.

QUOTE
However, that was because defenses didn't know he had a noodle arm.


Everybody knows that before Pennington was drafted that one of his "cons" was his lack of arm strength. How on earth could you make a statement like that when it's been said many times on this very board that one of Pennington's weaknesses listed before he was drafted was his arm strength. Teams knew Chad lacked arm strength before he even stepped on a NFL field, especially the teams that scouted him.

An excerpt from "Pro Football Weekly" before the 2000 draft
QUOTE
The top two quarterbacks in this year's crop are Louisville's Chris Redman and Marshall's Chad Pennington. Neither has the arm strength, athleticism or mobility of the first four quarterbacks taken last year


The 2000 Pro Football Weekly article

But yet you say other team's defenses didn't know that before he became the starter in 2002.

I also found this line hilarious.

QUOTE
Clemens is smart. Clemens can also scramble. Don't fear change.


And you know this how? You've seen him play in an entire NFL game before? But you left out the part about Clemens being God though. Why even wait let's dub him "Broadway Kellen" right now. Now I just wonder if Clemens wasn't with the Jets would he still be all these great things? Like I said it's Anybody But Chad.

I have no problem with change but I sure don't see why Mangini should just hand over the starting job to Clemens on a silver platter. He has to earn it and show the coaches and the team that he deserves it. You guys who just hate Pennington only want Kellen Clemens because he's not Chad Pennington. You don't even know if he'll be an upgrade you just think he will be because he's younger and "can throw the deep ball." So what Joe Namath could throw the deep ball but ended up with more INTs then TDs. I don't want to be in the position where my QB has to throw the deep ball. Most of the time that means your down late in the game. Like I said Kellen will be the starter but he IS NOT READY YET. The last thing I want to see is for him to get hurt because he's confused during a play and then he's injured for weeks. Or he starts playing awful, the New York media gets on him, it overwhelms him, and he loses his confidence (i.e. Eli Manning). You have to give Clemens at least as much time as Pennington had to learn the offense and the NFL style of play before you just throw him into the fire.

Now he might be ready as soon as this summer (though I doubt it) but Clemens has to earn it first. Mangini has already said "every job is open" so despite with some of you think Pennington is not the starter as of now. Clemens has a chance to win the job, but Mangini is not going to just give him or Pennington anything just because of who can throw the deep ball and pre-draft scouting reports.

Mangini: Every job open again
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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#48 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Mr_Jet @ Jan 24 2007, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course the post was full of sarcasm. You're basing all your claims on your own personal bias against Pennington and believing that your opinions are facts. Like I said before you give Chad all the credit for the losses but then the credit for the wins go to anybody but Chad and that's not biased? Either give him the credits for the wins too or don't give him any credit at all and that includes the losses. You can't have it both ways.

This is the line I found most funny.
Everybody knows that before Pennington was drafted that one of his "cons" was his lack of arm strength. How on earth could you make a statement like that when it's been said many times on this very board that one of Pennington's weaknesses listed before he was drafted was his arm strength. Teams knew Chad lacked arm strength before he even stepped on a NFL field, especially the teams that scouted him....

*------ INSERT BUNCH OF BORING GARBAGE HERE ------*


Dear GOD! Are you done making absolutely no sense at all yet? You criticize me for my "so-called" opinion and for my "bias" but here you are doing the same thing. I guess since you dissect my posts like the common internet web kiddie does, it makes you look better. I got lost somewhere in all the ramble of "You think you know the future" and "Is Clemens God?". We know Clemens can scramble because.... DING DING DING.... he did it in college. You sit here and tell me everyone in the world knew before Chad got into the NFL that his arm was weak, yet everyone can't know that Kellen has a huge arm and can scramble and is a smart QB because he hasn't played a "meaningful" NFL game. You really contradict yourself there pal.

All I've stated was the obvious in which you also agreed. Chad has a weak arm, NFL Defenses know this, meaning they stack the box which limits our offense. Like it or not, but in about 10000000000.GAZILLION words you've made my point. It's time for a change at QB. Clemens IS smart, his wonderlick proves that. Clemens HAS a strong arm, that's obvious. Clemens CAN scramble, watch some film on him. Chad IS smart, that's it! Clemens has upside, Chad has bench-side. You must be the same type of person that was upset and thought the Jets world would end when Edwards was fired.
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#49 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 02:30 AM

Ok this is my take on this debate looking at a glass half full.

Chad is limited and it hurts the team in more ways then one. Schottenhiemer can't dig deep into his playbook because of Chad's limitations (although I respect Schott's uncanny ability to utilize his book according to the Q.B he's working with) it still puts a damper on things. Another thing would have to be (and this is a biggie) the way the team has to play when Chad's the Q.B. You know what I'm talking out!... the defense has to play nearly flawless and Chad's has to absolutely make sure he doesn't turn the ball over because Chad is not the Q.B you want at the helm when you're down 2 score's. I've seen Chad time after time crumble in that situation because he just doesn't have enough mustard to make sh!t happen to rally a come-from-behind win. Even being behind and down 2 scores the O.C still call's slants and button hooks because frankly Chads arm is pathetic.

However on Chad's behalf I'll grant him this... This is the first year in 3 years where he can fully recoup without no bullsh!t. He has the time now to heal scar tissue and build muscle and you would think that he would be stronger and more able this coming season. BUT after this season is over I think we'll all know what were dealing with after no injuries and no bullsh!t. The jury is still deliberating.

I have to agree with Jets0n about Clemens. Jets fans a scared... petrified if you will about change. They seem to think that if Chad can't do it nobody can. My thoughts differ. Clemens would have been a 1st round pick if it wasn't for the knee injury and he possesses the same attributes that Chad currently has. leadership qualities, commands the huddle, hard worker, except Clemens comes with a gun and who is mobile. People can hide behind Penningtons coattail all they want and make excuses for him all they want but at the end of the day skill wins in this league. Chad is lacking athletic ability big time. Why wouldn't a fan want to see Clemens play. he brings so much to the table.

Everything will come out in the wash. Mangini doesn't hold favorites and there WILL BE a Q.B competition in training camp and may the best man win. I fully expect Clemens to make a serious push and don't be surprised if you're golden boy gets "white towel waving duties" while the young stud gets his shot.

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 03:27 AM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Jan 25 2007, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear GOD! Are you done making absolutely no sense at all yet? You criticize me for my "so-called" opinion and for my "bias" but here you are doing the same thing. I guess since you dissect my posts like the common internet web kiddie does, it makes you look better. I got lost somewhere in all the ramble of "You think you know the future" and "Is Clemens God?". We know Clemens can scramble because.... DING DING DING.... he did it in college. You sit here and tell me everyone in the world knew before Chad got into the NFL that his arm was weak, yet everyone can't know that Kellen has a huge arm and can scramble and is a smart QB because he hasn't played a "meaningful" NFL game. You really contradict yourself there pal.

All I've stated was the obvious in which you also agreed. Chad has a weak arm, NFL Defenses know this, meaning they stack the box which limits our offense. Like it or not, but in about 10000000000.GAZILLION words you've made my point. It's time for a change at QB. Clemens IS smart, his wonderlick proves that. Clemens HAS a strong arm, that's obvious. Clemens CAN scramble, watch some film on him. Chad IS smart, that's it! Clemens has upside, Chad has bench-side. You must be the same type of person that was upset and thought the Jets world would end when Edwards was fired.


First of all how would you even know if I make sense when you can't even read the post? Now perhaps you have A.D.D. I don't know. I really don't see why you feel the need to disrespect people and resort to name calling when somebody says something like that. You are the one that is worried about who looks better hysterical.gif but that's supposed to make you look better? You call me an "internet web kiddie" (what ever that is) and yet for all you know I could be older then you. You imply that I am "the same type of person that was upset and thought the Jets world would end when Edwards was fired" which I guess in some weak attempt to try and prove your point when you have no way of backing up that inane statement. If you knew anything I was completely behind Edwards getting the boot and liked Mangini because of his Patriots and Parcells ties before he was hired. So that little statement is completely baseless.

I'm not pro-Pennington or anti-Pennington. Just like I'm not pro or anti Clemens. If you had even read the end of my last post you'd know that but I guess that was asking too much. As long as they wear the Jets jersey they will BOTH always have my support EQUALLY. And I will defend BOTH of them against anybody including fellow Jets fans. I don't feel the need to constantly get on a message board and complain and rip a player on my favorite team who has worked his ass off year after year rehabing from three surgeries to win for this team, himself, and this teams fans.

You can talk about all the great things Clemens did in college but that means nothing in the NFL. Just ask Ryan Leaf, Eric Crouch, Jason White, and my personal favorite Brian Bosworth. Scouting reports, COLLEGE film highlights, that's what you're basing your argument on? Clemens WILL be the Jets starter if things go as planned, but he's not ready yet. I don't know if you know this or not but the college game and the NFL game are more different then they appear to be. That's why some high draft picks can be busts and some second day picks can be Hall of Famers. Scouting reports and college film are not always right. But let's just hope it is for Clemens.

Like I said you don't support Clemens for the starting job, he's just a name. It's Anybody But Chad, just admit it. You talk about scrambling, arm strength, and college film ( hysterical.gif ) of all things to try to defend your case when you can't even admit the truth to yourself....it's Anybody But Chad pure and simple.

Now you probably won't even read this since I've written more then five words but I'll write it anyway. I'm sorry that this is too much for you to handle and I know we live in a world full of 30 second advertisements and everything is supposed to be simple, short, sweet, and to the point. In a world where people only read the headlines and not the story underneath it. But I can't do that. I like to tell people why I say what say. I like to bring facts to my argument so people don't think I'm pulling them out of my ass like some Bill O'Reilly type person. I like to find sources to back up my point of view. That's why (unlike you) I posted links to articles that proved my point. If that's boring well then I guess I'm boring. But I'd rather be long (boring) and right then short and wrong. I like to know what I'm talking about, but that's just me.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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#51 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:46 AM

ADD or apathy.... whatever you wanna call it. I feel like I'm getting psycho-analyzed!

And you're wrong anyway, I read your whole post. You keep talking about the "anybody but Chad" and how am I supposed to know Clemens is gonna be a good player. In the same vein you're telling me "he's not ready." How is it you know these things but when I say them I'm wrong? Didn't Brady win a Superbowl his 1st year starting and 2nd year in the league. It appeared the season was over with Bledsoe who is a loser but hey, atleast he's experienced.

Anyway, if this was a long attempt at getting me to agree that I want anybody but Chad, you're right... sort of. I want mainly Clemens to be the QB because for 1, this Jets regime hand picked him which means he very well could end up being the next Tom Brady. 2, Mangini knows what Beli knows... that gets me excited to see what they see in Clemens. He might have that uncanny attribute that Brady has which makes him so damn composed and a 3 time Superbowl winner.

Anyway, yeah I dont want to see Chad QB'ing the Jets anymore. He limits the offense and can't throw it deep and like SDubb said, he can't win being down a couple scores nor is he good enough to carry a poorly playing team. I'm not just talking about his arm strength, I'm talking about him as a QB and a decision maker. I'm not actually all that impressed anymore. I took off my green goggles last season concerning Chad. I judge him for what he does on the field. This team could have been better with Clemens. Chad put up rookie QB stats this year IMO. Clemens will strongly challenge Chad and I'm pretty sure he's gonna win. Even if he makes a mistake or two where as Chad seems flawless. Chad is damaged goods. He's also highly inconsistent. Something I noticed about Chad supporters is they ALWAYS point to 2002 to show how he's a good QB. Same with 2004 when we had one hell of a defense and CMart was rushing champ. Same thing this year when we had one of the easiest schedules ever and the real coach of the year. So, yes... I want Clemens instead of Chad because I don't want to see him play QB anymore. It hurts and I don't trust 1 single pass he throws. Everytime I have an anxiety attack thinking it's gonna get picked.

And anyway, if you can't take the criticism then you shouldn't have dished it out back there with your HIGHLY sarcastic remarks to my post.
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Posted 25 January 2007 - 11:56 AM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Jan 24 2007, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I believe you didn't even see any of those games anyway did you. Arent you in the UK? How can you say Chad beat NE or Miami? Did you even watch the games? Total domination in every facet of the game is how the Jets beat GB, Minn and Tenn. The wins against Miami and NE were won by 1. Leon Washington and 2. The most dominant defense we've seen all year. Chad played horrible against Miami, not even completing 50% of his passes. He also fumbled in that game. In NE he was picked off, of course, and barely threw over 150 yards. How in the hell can you give Chad Pennington wins there?

Man I almost forgot to add the CLE game where he was dominated by the 3rd worst team in the league. 21 passer rating, 2 INTs.... yeah, he's really a quality QB that deserves to not be scrutinized for his play. He's the best option at QB for the Jets.... please!


You're right the only game out of those listed I was able to see was the NE playoff game but from reports, stats, highlights etc they were full of praise for Chad and he did well. Just because I didn't see those games in their entirety doesn't mean I can't pass judgement on them either so don't try and bring my location into a debate about Chad Pennington. The Miami game I was on about was the one at the Meadowlands too and I admit he was poor in the game in Miami.

Here's the stats for the games I listed:

Tennessee - Passing yards: 302, Rushing yards 91 (on 34 rushes)
Miami - Passing: 169 (2 TDs), Rushing: 103 (on 27 carries)
New England - Passing: 161 (key TD to Cotchery), Rushing: 117
Green Bay - Passing: 263 (2 first half TDs) Rushing: 178. In this game the running game I recall worked well as Chad and the passing attack set it up.
Minnesota: Passing: 323, Rushing: 68 (on 29 carries)

I know stats aren't everything but they do show a lot and in these games the running game failed to produce at a decent average against Tennessee, Miami and especially in Minnesota.

I'm not saying Chad is the answer. I'm saying he's a good QB, not elite who at the moment can do a job whilst Clemens develops.
If Clemens is better in TC and preseason start him. If not start Chad. Right now no one really knows where Clemens is at in terms of development. What's the point throwing him in if he isn't ready when you have a guy who was QB for a 10 win season available. Again, if Clemens is not ready and you throw him to the wolves it's going to be a negative experience for him.
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#53 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Jan 25 2007, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're right the only game out of those listed I was able to see was the NE playoff game but from reports, stats, highlights etc they were full of praise for Chad and he did well. Just because I didn't see those games in their entirety doesn't mean I can't pass judgement on them either so don't try and bring my location into a debate about Chad Pennington. The Miami game I was on about was the one at the Meadowlands too and I admit he was poor in the game in Miami.

Here's the stats for the games I listed:

Tennessee - Passing yards: 302, Rushing yards 91 (on 34 rushes)
Miami - Passing: 169 (2 TDs), Rushing: 103 (on 27 carries)
New England - Passing: 161 (key TD to Cotchery), Rushing: 117
Green Bay - Passing: 263 (2 first half TDs) Rushing: 178. In this game the running game I recall worked well as Chad and the passing attack set it up.
Minnesota: Passing: 323, Rushing: 68 (on 29 carries)

I know stats aren't everything but they do show a lot and in these games the running game failed to produce at a decent average against Tennessee, Miami and especially in Minnesota.

I'm not saying Chad is the answer. I'm saying he's a good QB, not elite who at the moment can do a job whilst Clemens develops.
If Clemens is better in TC and preseason start him. If not start Chad. Right now no one really knows where Clemens is at in terms of development. What's the point throwing him in if he isn't ready when you have a guy who was QB for a 10 win season available. Again, if Clemens is not ready and you throw him to the wolves it's going to be a negative experience for him.


Well you have your story and I have mine crazy.gif

This is where I'm coming from: I see no reason why Clemens shouldn't be ready to play opening day. Even if Chad was ahead of him in terms of mentally, I still think he should start for the plain and simple reason that Chad's performance this year was nothing short of mediocre middle of the pack QB'ing. His stats to me were quite telling of his performances on the field. Actually they could make him look better due to all the INT's that were dropped and they don't really show all the ugly completions as well as passes that looked like the ball was coated in grease and slipped out of his hand 20 yards off the mark and 10 yards too high.

To me it's simple, he can't throw the ball well enough. Mangini and Schotty are HIGH on Clemens. Other analysts are HIGH on Clemens. I think he should be starting 2007. Everyone knew and was saying, "Give the kid 1 year on the bench, bring him in the next year." Now that the next year is here some want to say he's still not ready. I personally think he'd have been ready by week 6 to play if need be. We saw how he played in preseason last year and alot of us were amazed with his presence and the fact he was like the only QB to throw a TD. Now he did make a bad read or two but that's expected of a rookie in his first appearances.

People say these young guys aren't ready and can't make it because they don't have experience. I just don't see why guys like Brady and Ben can be ready to play, even though no one thought they were at one time, but it's impossible for Clemens to be ready to play.
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#54 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Jan 25 2007, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ADD or apathy.... whatever you wanna call it. I feel like I'm getting psycho-analyzed!

And you're wrong anyway, I read your whole post. You keep talking about the "anybody but Chad" and how am I supposed to know Clemens is gonna be a good player. In the same vein you're telling me "he's not ready." How is it you know these things but when I say them I'm wrong? Didn't Brady win a Superbowl his 1st year starting and 2nd year in the league. It appeared the season was over with Bledsoe who is a loser but hey, atleast he's experienced.


Oh how quickly we forget. Drew Bledsoe was injured in 2001 that's why he lost his starting job. Belichump HAD to start Tom Brady HE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. Had Bledsoe not been injured he would have in all likely hood remained the starter. It didn't matter if Brady was ready or not the Patriots had no other choice after Bledsoe went down! Now whether the Pats still would have won the Super Bowl with Bledsoe in 2001 is debatable because it's defense that wins championships. But like I said Brady didn't become the starter because Bledsoe was a loser. He became the starter because Bledsoe got injured.

QUOTE
Anyway, if this was a long attempt at getting me to agree that I want anybody but Chad, you're right... sort of. I want mainly Clemens to be the QB because for 1, this Jets regime hand picked him which means he very well could end up being the next Tom Brady. 2, Mangini knows what Beli knows... that gets me excited to see what they see in Clemens. He might have that uncanny attribute that Brady has which makes him so damn composed and a 3 time Superbowl winner.


WELL YOU FINALLY ADMIT IT. It took long enough. Anybody But Chad like I've said over and over. That's what it all comes down to. And if Clemens wasn't on the team would he still be all these things? I'd doubt you'd even know his name if he played for any other team in the league. Now you're comparing Clemens to Tom Brady? That is really jumping the gun. Clemens hasn't even started ONE regular season game and he's already our version of Tom Brady. You are right he MIGHT have the same uncanny attributes that Brady has...and he might not (though I hope to God he does). But like YOU said he MIGHT and that's the key word, MIGHT. People in the media jumped the gun when they compared Pennington to Joe Montana back in 2002, you're now doing the same with Clemens and Brady.

QUOTE
Anyway, yeah I dont want to see Chad QB'ing the Jets anymore. He limits the offense and can't throw it deep and like SDubb said, he can't win being down a couple scores nor is he good enough to carry a poorly playing team. I'm not just talking about his arm strength, I'm talking about him as a QB and a decision maker. I'm not actually all that impressed anymore. I took off my green goggles last season concerning Chad. I judge him for what he does on the field. This team could have been better with Clemens. Chad put up rookie QB stats this year IMO. Clemens will strongly challenge Chad and I'm pretty sure he's gonna win. Even if he makes a mistake or two where as Chad seems flawless. Chad is damaged goods. He's also highly inconsistent. Something I noticed about Chad supporters is they ALWAYS point to 2002 to show how he's a good QB. Same with 2004 when we had one hell of a defense and CMart was rushing champ. Same thing this year when we had one of the easiest schedules ever and the real coach of the year. So, yes... I want Clemens instead of Chad because I don't want to see him play QB anymore. It hurts and I don't trust 1 single pass he throws. Everytime I have an anxiety attack thinking it's gonna get picked.


Well I'm glad you took your "green goggles" off when it comes to Pennington. But you've just replaced those goggles with "green goggles" for Kellen Clemens. IF he doesn't pan out as expected will you still defend him? But he can throw the deep ball so that's all that matters. But like you finally admitted it's not Clemens is more Anybody But Chad. Clemens is just a name and you're grasping at straws to make him the next Tom Brady. Let the guy get on the field first before you start comparing him to Brady. For all we know he might even be better then Brady when it's all said and done. But you have no way of knowing that for sure until it happens.

QUOTE
And anyway, if you can't take the criticism then you shouldn't have dished it out back there with your HIGHLY sarcastic remarks to my post.


I can take the criticism, you are the one that took offense to my sarcasm. If you couldn't take it then you shouldn't have replied to me. I just found it funny that you were/are basing your argument on such weak things like arm strength, college film, pre-season games, and scouting reports. Like I said before I support BOTH Pennington and Clemens as long as they are Jets and will defend Clemens to anybody. But I'm not going to base my defense of Clemens on broad generalizations and weak evidence like college film, pre-season games, and scouting reports. I have to see him play a REAL NFL game first. As of now I can only defend his potential. But that doesn't include comparing him to Tom Brady before he even starts a game.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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#55 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 03:24 PM

Since you think you are gonna own me here by dissecting my posts I'm about to bring it to you.

QUOTE (Mr_Jet @ Jan 25 2007, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh how quickly we forget. Drew Bledsoe was injured in 2001 that's why he lost his starting job. Belichump HAD to start Tom Brady HE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. Had Bledsoe not been injured he would have in all likely hood remained the starter. It didn't matter if Brady was ready or not the Patriots had no other choice after Bledsoe went down! Now whether the Pats still would have won the Super Bowl with Bledsoe in 2001 is debatable because it's defense that wins championships. But like I said Brady didn't become the starter because Bledsoe was a loser. He became the starter because Bledsoe got injured.


What the hell is your point? Do you even know or are you just in argument mode? Who cares if he didn't have a choice, that's not the point. The point is Tom Brady was ready to play. Like I don't know that's how Tom Brady got his start. Tom Brady, 2nd year player, was ready to play even though there was supposedly a better option in front of him. Guess what, Tom Brady was the better QB despite never having played before in the NFL. Bledsoe was an underachiever and a loser, if management was gonna overlook Tom Brady that's their deal, but that doesn't take away from the fact that despite being a 2nd year player and never having game experience that he wasn't able to play the game to the fullest extent... which is winning the Superbowl.

QUOTE
WELL YOU FINALLY ADMIT IT. It took long enough. Anybody But Chad like I've said over and over. That's what it all comes down to. And if Clemens wasn't on the team would he still be all these things? I'd doubt you'd even know his name if he played for any other team in the league. Now you're comparing Clemens to Tom Brady? That is really jumping the gun. Clemens hasn't even started ONE regular season game and he's already our version of Tom Brady. You are right he MIGHT have the same uncanny attributes that Brady has...and he might not (though I hope to God he does). But like YOU said he MIGHT and that's the key word, MIGHT. People in the media jumped the gun when they compared Pennington to Joe Montana back in 2002, you're now doing the same with Clemens and Brady.


Now in order to support whatever your point is... we're all I'm sure still wondering... you are going to insult my knowledge of the NFL like I wouldn't know anyone except Jets players. Please, you have no idea what you are talking about especially when you are attempting to insult someone else's intelligence when I think there's alot of people that would disagree with you. I know the NFL. Nice try. Now onto business.

I think it's obvious that I don't like Chad Pennington at QB. That doesn't mean I think Ramsey should play in front of him or some other loser at QB. I want Kellen Clemens to play to see if he's the future of this franchise. I guess what you mean is, "I don't care who plays QB as long as it's not Chad Pennington." I misunderstood and if that's what you are attempting to get me to admit then I refuse to do that. Clemens is a better prospect with a better arm and smarts. It has nothing to do with him ONLY being able to throw a deep ball. Point is he can make the throws, Chad cant. He can also run an offense and manage a game from what I've seen.

QUOTE
Well I'm glad you took your "green goggles" off when it comes to Pennington. But you've just replaced those goggles with "green goggles" for Kellen Clemens. IF he doesn't pan out as expected will you still defend him? But he can throw the deep ball so that's all that matters. But like you finally admitted it's not Clemens is more Anybody But Chad. Clemens is just a name and you're grasping at straws to make him the next Tom Brady. Let the guy get on the field first before you start comparing him to Brady. For all we know he might even be better then Brady when it's all said and done. But you have no way of knowing that for sure until it happens.


I didn't admit that, I believe I said I want Kellen Clemens to start because I like him as a prospect. I'm not grasping at straws, the kid is getting rave reviews dude. It's better than 17TD's and 16INT's and shitting the bed against better defenses. It's better than being down 14 points meaning it's a sure loss. It's better than having a defense play our offense shallow and drill the WR's over the middle. And obviously your reading comprehension skills are lacking if you think I said Clemens is the next Brady. I said he like Brady, and here's the connection, could be ready to play his 2nd year in the league. I also said that Mangini knows a thing or two about the intangibles that Brady has and hopefully how to locate that when searching for replacements. It's no secret they scouted pretty damn well with this draft class and I'm excited to see if they got it right with Clemens. That's that. Moving on.

QUOTE
I can take the criticism, you are the one that took offense to my sarcasm. If you couldn't take it then you shouldn't have replied to me. I just found it funny that you were/are basing your argument on such weak things like arm strength, college film, pre-season games, and scouting reports. Like I said before I support BOTH Pennington and Clemens as long as they are Jets and will defend Clemens to anybody. But I'm not going to base my defense of Clemens on broad generalizations and weak evidence like college film, pre-season games, and scouting reports. I have to see him play a REAL NFL game first. As of now I can only defend his potential. But that doesn't include comparing him to Tom Brady before he even starts a game.


No I didn't take offense to sarcasm, but I'm not gonna sit there and let you insult my intelligence either. Who do you think you're dealing with, a defenseless puppy? Sorry to disappoint but this doggy has bite. Personally, if you think that basing assumptions about a player due to physical attributes/college film/scouting reports/etc... is "weak" then I have nothing else to say to you except that I'm glad you aren't scouting for the Jets. How would you select talent if you didn't look at these things? "They've never played in the NFL and I don't make judgments based on film or your scouting reports..." That makes absolutely no sense at all which is what all of your posts on this subject have shown. You just want to argue with me and I'm not even sure what the hell your issue is.

Lets see if I got this correct, I'm wrong because:
1. I've made an "assumption" that Kellen can play QB based on college film, preseason, and scouting reports along with his obvious physical attributes [arm strength, mobility, game management, etc...] in which you call "broad generalizations" and "weak evidence".
2. That I think Chad Pennington isn't a quality QB so we need a "quality" replacement which I believe that Kellen Clemens could be. We'll never know until he starts playing. Duh, that's what the draft is all about. Getting college players and seeing if they are gonna succeed at the next level.


I really don't understand what your deal is but it's obvious you just want to argue. Have at it, I can shoot down this crap all day.
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#56 User is offline   NYJBlueHen Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 03:40 PM

We get it, you two have different opinions. Neither of you is disproving the other so can we just move on instead of rambling arguments?

Oh and I remember awhile back people were nominating each other for awards or something, can I nominate "this doggy has bite" for gayest line of the year?
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#57 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 04:23 PM

QUOTE (NYJBlueHen @ Jan 25 2007, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We get it, you two have different opinions. Neither of you is disproving the other so can we just move on instead of rambling arguments?

Oh and I remember awhile back people were nominating each other for awards or something, can I nominate "this doggy has bite" for gayest line of the year?


Ha....Ha..... diespam.gif
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#58 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 02:14 AM

View Postjets0n, on Jan 25 2007, 03:59 PM, said:

Since you think you are gonna own me here by dissecting my posts I'm about to bring it to you.


Oh my, I'm shaking in my boots funny.gif. What is this some 4th grade recess fight? hysterical.gif If you want to be Kirsten Dunst and "bring it" well please but all means be my guest. But you'll be doing it alone though.

Quote

What the hell is your point? Do you even know or are you just in argument mode? Who cares if he didn't have a choice, that's not the point. The point is Tom Brady was ready to play. Like I don't know that's how Tom Brady got his start. Tom Brady, 2nd year player, was ready to play even though there was supposedly a better option in front of him. Guess what, Tom Brady was the better QB despite never having played before in the NFL. Bledsoe was an underachiever and a loser, if management was gonna overlook Tom Brady that's their deal, but that doesn't take away from the fact that despite being a 2nd year player and never having game experience that he wasn't able to play the game to the fullest extent... which is winning the Superbowl.


And you are STILL comparing Clemens to Brady and you've yet to see Clemens start one game. Your belief that Bledsoe was an underachiever and a loser is your opinion and doesn't make it fact. Apparently Belichump thought enough of him before the start of the 2001 season to start him and I don't recall there being any QB controversy in New England before the 2001 season. Bledsoe got injured, Brady had to start because of it, Brady won the starting job, it's common knowledge. Bledsoe didn't lose it because he was a "loser" he lost it because Brady got his chance and proved himself worthy of being the starter. Plus if Bledsoe was such a "loser" and "underachiever" the Patriots wouldn't have re-signed him to a 10 year, 103 million dollar contract extension before the start of the 2001 season.

I'm going to "bring it" hysterical.gif right here.

Bledsoe signs record contract (Chicago Sun-Times)

My favorite quote comes from Bob Kraft.

Quote

Patriots owner Bob Kraft said "Bledsoe has a chance to be remembered in Boston like Ted Williams, Bill Russell and Larry Bird, each having played his entire pro career in the city."

"I remember feeling sad when Bobby Orr left," Kraft said of the NHL Hall of Famer who left Boston for the Blackhawks near the end of his career. "I saw this as an opportunity to sign one of the great Patriots for the rest of his career."


Kraft sure did have high praise for that loser and underachiever he gave a 103 million dollar contract to before the 2001 season.

Quote

Now in order to support whatever your point is... we're all I'm sure still wondering... you are going to insult my knowledge of the NFL like I wouldn't know anyone except Jets players. Please, you have no idea what you are talking about especially when you are attempting to insult someone else's intelligence when I think there's alot of people that would disagree with you. I know the NFL. Nice try. Now onto business.


A lot of people disagree with me I'm sure. That's their right. But could you give us some names of these people? Well since you "know the NFL" who is the back up QB for the New Orleans Saints (without looking it up on the internet first)? Can you the name off the top of your head who that back up QB is on the Detroit Lions? Without looking it up can you name who backs up David Carr in Houston? I know I can't do it with looking it up first. I don't know who is the #2 QB on the depth charts for the Saints, Lions, and Texans and I'll gladly admit I'm Mr. Jet not Mr. NFL. The Jets are my favorite team and they're the players who I care about.

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I think it's obvious that I don't like Chad Pennington at QB. That doesn't mean I think Ramsey should play in front of him or some other loser at QB. I want Kellen Clemens to play to see if he's the future of this franchise. I guess what you mean is, "I don't care who plays QB as long as it's not Chad Pennington." I misunderstood and if that's what you are attempting to get me to admit then I refuse to do that. Clemens is a better prospect with a better arm and smarts. It has nothing to do with him ONLY being able to throw a deep ball. Point is he can make the throws, Chad cant. He can also run an offense and manage a game from what I've seen.


I'm just glad you finally admitted it. Now that we all know everybody can determine for themselves whether or not you're being objective and can actually see the other side of the argument or if your just basing your argument on your blatant dislike for Chad Pennington. From what I can tell it's the latter, but that's just my opinion and not a fact.

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I didn't admit that, I believe I said I want Kellen Clemens to start because I like him as a prospect. I'm not grasping at straws, the kid is getting rave reviews dude. It's better than 17TD's and 16INT's and shitting the bed against better defenses. It's better than being down 14 points meaning it's a sure loss. It's better than having a defense play our offense shallow and drill the WR's over the middle. And obviously your reading comprehension skills are lacking if you think I said Clemens is the next Brady. I said he like Brady, and here's the connection, could be ready to play his 2nd year in the league. I also said that Mangini knows a thing or two about the intangibles that Brady has and hopefully how to locate that when searching for replacements. It's no secret they scouted pretty damn well with this draft class and I'm excited to see if they got it right with Clemens. That's that. Moving on.


Quote

Sorry, but I've given Pennington 4 years of excuses. No more from me. He's not untouchable and there are better options out there. I admit, after watching the Jets all season, then I watch these other QB's throw the ball and it's just like "Holy crap!" I want that feeling in NY.


Anybody But Chad.

Quote

Facts! Another fact, he's horrible against Top 10 defenses. Wanna know why? Top 10 defenses can defend his crappy short throws with less help from the safeties so they can stack the box and play short routes.


You've still yet to name the top 10 defenses that Chad played horrible against this season. Oh I forgot you "know the NFL" you can name them with ease an not have to go to NFL.com or any other website or publication.

When it comes down to it you're argument has so many mights, coulds, maybes, and probablys when it comes to Clemens that you now believe it to be fact. All this talk of what he did in college, pre-season, and what scouts had to say about him is ALL you have. Then you compare him to Brady just because Brady started playing in his second season and next season will be Clemens' second in the league. KELLEN CLEMENS IS NOT TOM BRADY. Pennington is not Bledsoe. Mangini is not Belichump. It's 2007 not 2001. Every situation is different. Clemens was drafted to be the future of the Jets, Brady wasn't drafted to be the future of the Patriots. I'm glad and never supported the Jets drafting Leinart or Cutler. I was and happy the team drafted Clemens. Because I knew with him there would/will be no rush to make him the starter. I knew he would get a better chance to learn the offense, get more practice time, and become more comfortable with the NFL style of play. I knew he wouldn't have the pressure to be a success in New York before he was ready, unlike a Leinart or Cutler who would. And that's why I PREDICT when it's all said and down Clemens will be more successful (individually) in the NFL then Leinart and Cutler will be (individually). I see no reason to rush him when the team is still rebuilding. The defense is not a Super Bowl caliber one yet and I want to wait until Mangini has all his pieces in place on the defensive side of the ball before Clemens' abilities are shown on the field so other NFL coaches will have tape of him to use against him. I want the offensive line to be more solid before Clemens takes his first snap as a starter. I'd be heartbroken if he went down because he started before the offensive line was solid and not yet deep enough. Oh yeah how well did Brady and the Pats do in 2002 again (Brady first full season as a starter)?

Quote

No I didn't take offense to sarcasm, but I'm not gonna sit there and let you insult my intelligence either. Who do you think you're dealing with, a defenseless puppy? Sorry to disappoint but this doggy has bite. Personally, if you think that basing assumptions about a player due to physical attributes/college film/scouting reports/etc... is "weak" then I have nothing else to say to you except that I'm glad you aren't scouting for the Jets. How would you select talent if you didn't look at these things? "They've never played in the NFL and I don't make judgments based on film or your scouting reports..." That makes absolutely no sense at all which is what all of your posts on this subject have shown. You just want to argue with me and I'm not even sure what the hell your issue is.


Well please don't bite me. I'm not in to that kinky stuff. But you are taking this all a little to personal and a little to seriously. I'm glad I'm not a scout for the Jets either since I'm not qualified for the job. But with that said I'm glad you're not the Jets Head Coach, because obviously you rush to judgement to quickly and that could hurt the team. But at least if you were the HC you'd see Clemens in training camp, on the practice field, watching game film, learning from the coaches and other players and then I'd know you actually knew what you are talking about....unlike now.

Quote

Lets see if I got this correct, I'm wrong because:
1. I've made an "assumption" that Kellen can play QB based on college film, preseason, and scouting reports along with his obvious physical attributes [arm strength, mobility, game management, etc...] in which you call "broad generalizations" and "weak evidence".


Nope, you are saying he will be better then Pennington because of those things bet yet you give no proof to back it up other then college film, preseason, and scouting reports. Hell you might be right (key word being "might"). But you still have yet to direct me or give any links to show Clemens' arm strength, mobility, game management, his scouting reports, etc. I don't live on the west coast. I don't see many Pac-10 let alone Oregon games. So I want to see the college film, the scouting reports, the arm strength, the mobility, the game management, etc. I want to be impressed too.

2. That I think Chad Pennington isn't a quality QB so we need a "quality" replacement which I believe that Kellen Clemens could be. We'll never know until he starts playing. Duh, that's what the draft is all about. Getting college players and seeing if they are gonna succeed at the next level.
I really don't understand what your deal is but it's obvious you just want to argue. Have at it, I can shoot down this crap all day.

So we need to throw the guy out there before he is ready? Well I'll let Kellen Clemens answer that question.

"Chad is still an awesome, awesome quarterback," Clemens said. "He proved it this year. My approach will be the same. I still have plenty of things to learn and I'll have plenty of opportunities to learn from Chad."

From the mouth of the man himself.

Not set for takeoff (New York Daily News)

But I guess that's just more crap to shoot down. But don't bite me doggy, bite Kellen Clemens....though I also doubt he's into that.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:12 AM

Boy you just don't get it. You are consistently contradicting yourself and using snide remarks to discredit what I've said. First you don't judge by the films/scouting reports/etc.... I do because he's never played in the NFL like 200 other players and that's all we have. I'm wrong for this. But then you want to see these things. I really don't get it.

You can make all the jokes and BILLION word essays trying to prove me wrong but you are still assuming that I think ANYBODY BUT CHAD will do. WRONG! I dont want to see Chad playing QB for the Jets, but I'd rather see him than Ramsey or some other retard that proved he's a loser... aka BLEDSOE. My opinion is he sucks which is why he's never been able to win anything. He's a loser. That's obvious, Pats kicked him to the curb, Bills kicked him to the curb, Dallas benched his ass. Just because Kraft gave him a big contract... what does that have to do whether or not he deserved it? Mike Vick makes that kind of money, he sucks balls. And just for the record, I'm comparing Clemens to any QB that's been ready to play despite being 1-2 years in the league.

This is the crap I'm talking about:
QUOTE
Nope, you are saying he will be better then Pennington because of those things bet yet you give no proof to back it up other then college film, preseason, and scouting reports. Hell you might be right (key word being "might"). But you still have yet to direct me or give any links to show Clemens' arm strength, mobility, game management, his scouting reports, etc. I don't live on the west coast. I don't see many Pac-10 let alone Oregon games. So I want to see the college film, the scouting reports, the arm strength, the mobility, the game management, etc. I want to be impressed too.


What does this even mean? I'm saying he's gonna be better than Pennington because atleast he can throw it down the field [ as seen on TV ], and he has all the mental intangibles [ scouting reports ] that Pennington does. Now I have to PROVE it to you by physically showing you articles and game film? Not only that but because I've seen all these things, my basis is weak, but you'd like to base an opinion on him by looking at game films and scouting reports...... I think I'm stuck in a brain loop trying to understand this. So obviously I'm correct. Not only that but you are arguing with me on this but YOU are the one that has NO PROOF of anything about Clemens. You are telling me Pennington is better but you really know nothing about Clemens.....but I'm wrong for basing opinions on this..... once again, I'm not getting it.

So I'm gonna try this again:
1. I don't think that just anybody in the NFL is better than Chad Pennington. But I do think it's time he's benched for other prospects.... ala Kellen Clemens. Not for a John Kitna/Patrick Ramsey/Drew Bledsoe, people that have proved they are losers. Understand? Good. I hope so.

2. Quoting Clemens on being PC and respectful.... what do you expect him to say, "Hey NY vicious media, I'm going on record here to say I'm the better QB in NY and I'm causing a QB contraversy." Would that satisfy you?

None the less, agree to disagree. I don't think anyone on the board wants to read our spewage anymore. I'm closing this thread.
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