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The O-line Is The Problem......... BOTTOM LINE.......

#41 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 11:21 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Oct 6 2005, 04:46 PM)
Wow once again u make no sense. Vinny has an arm and can bomb it all day. does that mean that u let him? NO! of course it makes sense. Look lets say westhoff says kick it. lets say nugent kicks it 1 yard deep in the end zone. The guy is gonna run it out and will have all types of room to do it. if he dierectional kicks it to th 5 yard line he’ll gaet tackled earlier so it more then makes up for the yardage. Westhoff is either an idiot or doesn’t have confidence in his unit to cover the whole field. If u watch nugents video in collge he kicks them through the endzone. Its only a 5 yard difference in the NFL I believe so he can kick it 5 yards deep. Remember the out of bounds kicks? Its cause he was trying to directional kick it EVEN WESTHHOFF SAID SO!

wow. once again you make NO sense. I said TOUCHBACKS. I said obviously Nugent doesn't have the leg for TOUCHBACKS. NOT 1 yard deep kicks in the endzone. TOUCHBACKS. so that means that there is no return. just in case you didn't know that. if he's kicking them through the endzone in college then he should be getting touchbacks. like i said he doesn't have the leg. because if he could kick TOUCHBACKS then westhoff would let him. remember TOUCHBACKS. and that is why westhoff has made him directional kick.
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#42 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:16 AM

Hello u can kick it 8 yards deep and the guy can take it out. u can kick it 2 yards deep and he can down it. it all depends on the kick coverage and the returner not just how deep the ball goes. Maybe he can kick it 5 yards deep but it doesn’t mean it’d be a touchback.
Get it done MT
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#43 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Oct 7 2005, 10:51 AM)
Hello u can kick it 8 yards deep and the guy can take it out. u can kick it 2 yards deep and he can down it. it all depends on the kick coverage and the returner not just how deep the ball goes. Maybe he can kick it 5 yards deep but it doesn’t mean it’d be a touchback.


hello. you think if he could kick it 5 yards deep or even 2 yards deep taht westhoff would make him directional kick??? listen our special teams hasn't even been good when it comes to kick offs so why continue to directional kick. why not make him kick in the endzone. and lets be for real. NOBODY IN THE NFL RETURNS A KICK THATS 8 yards deep. almost all of those result in touchbacks. you arent' realistic. just realize that nugent doesn't have the leg. if he did we wouldn't directional kick. if he was putting it in the endzone we wouldn't directional kick. its that simple.

you make no sense
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#44 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 01:25 PM

Actually they do. Hall returns everyone he gets his hands on. Didn’t he have lke a 108 yards TD return or something. I’m not saying they all do but the better ones do. Plus u can’t guarantee he’ll do it everytime. He might kick one to the 5 and the next one 5 yards deep. Its not madden u know. if it goes 5 yards deep a lot of returners will take it out. westhoff like the directional kick cause it leaves less lanes for the KR to go through. Its like saying graham sucks for kincking it 30 yards and them getting it at the 10 rather then booming it through the end zone. Its called strategy. Obviously u have a problem with either nugernt or TB or drafting a kicker or maybe your doug brien. U haven’t made any points yet except to say if u can kick deep do it every time. I bet you want vinny to throw a bomb every other play too? it might be fun to watch but it doesn’t win games.
Get it done MT
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#45 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 03:04 PM

take off green glasses
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#46 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 04:13 PM

how do i have on green glasses if i'm bashing our special teams coach? lay off the pipe please. you make no sense whatsoever
Get it done MT
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#47 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 08:06 PM

you make no sense. that green hash you smoke has got you in purple heaven. to think that a coach would directional kick for a guy that kicks kickoffs 8 yards into the endzone. who's smoking??? you are.
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Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:24 PM

Not to even get into his leg strength, you don't kick into the end zone every time because you hope that there is a return and that your guys stop them behind the 20. If you boot it deep every time then you end up with the offense getting the ball at the 20 on Touchbacks.

So, the reason you directional kick is to get the ball in the corner of the field (not end zone) but returnable so the guy will be forced to bring it out. He can't back it up into the red zone if he catches it, so he would be returning the ball with all your guys aiming for that corner.

You also have to remember that most teams WANT to try and return the ball because they should feel like they can get past the twenty and so get further than they would on a touchback. That means a team that gets the ball on even the one or two yard line will try to bring the ball forward rather than just let the ball go into the end zone.

SO, while the ability to get touchbacks is nice, it is inferior to the ability to get the ball consistently within the ten yard line. Touchbacks are worthwhile against the elite return men, who are too dangerous to kick to, or if you have a poor kickoff unit that typically allows the opposing team to get past the twenty.

Sum it up!

good coverage=directional kick
weak return men=directional kick

strong return men=touchback
weak coverage=touchback
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#49 User is offline   Buc Fan Icon

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (a1elbow @ Oct 7 2005, 11:59 PM)
Not to even get into his leg strength, you don't kick into the end zone every time because you hope that there is a return and that your guys stop them behind the 20.  If you boot it deep every time then you end up with the offense getting the ball at the 20 on Touchbacks.

So, the reason you directional kick is to get the ball in the corner of the field (not end zone) but returnable so the guy will be forced to bring it out.  He can't back it up into the red zone if he catches it, so he would be returning the ball with all your guys aiming for that corner.

You also have to remember that most teams WANT to try and return the ball because they should feel like they can get past the twenty and so get further than they would on a touchback.  That means a team that gets the ball on even the one or two yard line will try to bring the ball forward rather than just let the ball go into the end zone.

SO, while the ability to get touchbacks is nice, it is inferior to the ability to get the ball consistently within the ten yard line.  Touchbacks are worthwhile against the elite return men, who are too dangerous to kick to, or if you have a poor kickoff unit that typically allows the opposing team to get past the twenty.

Sum it up!

good coverage=directional kick
weak return men=directional kick

strong return men=touchback
weak coverage=touchback

Well said.

Anyone that attacks Nugent is in need of a reality check. This kid is the real deal.

We'd love to have him.

Grammatica was awesome until the 2003 season... then he was a cancer. Nugent will be just as accurate. Get a stronger ST unit that tackles better. Grammatica hardly kicked Touchbacks as well... but he was nails on the FGs.
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#50 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 12:04 AM

the thing is people have consistently gotten it past the 20 on our directional kicks. so you tell me if it's better to kick it long or not
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#51 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 12:12 AM

oh one more thing. anyone who questions nugent is being realistic. what has he done since he's been here?: kicked the ball out of bounds and slipped on a field goal. and otherwise he's made normal 30 or so yard field goals. it's not even about questioning nugent. it's about questioning the jets decision to take him with their first pick in the draft when basically we have other needs.

I mean brien wouldn't didn't kick out of bounds all year last year and didn't miss a kick under 40 yards so thats why it's justified to question that decision.
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#52 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 02:16 AM

look if u want yo hate nugent fine then do it but don't use your hate for him to try and twist facts
Get it done MT
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#53 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 11:15 AM

what did I twist?
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#54 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 03:23 PM

the fact that he is being told to directional kick
Get it done MT
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#55 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 12:29 PM

do we still have an argument. where's doug brien. he would have made a 40 yarder.
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#56 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE (triple3s @ Oct 9 2005, 11:04 AM)
do we still have an argument. where's doug brien. he would have made a 40 yarder.


brien is getting cut for missing so mane FGs so not yet.
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#57 User is offline   silversword55 Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 01:05 PM

TD JETS! 7-6 NYJ yahoo.gif

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#58 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 01:07 PM

even so forget brien. but i will never be for taking nugent with that pick. even if he does good. and he hasn't even done that. i dont' know how you can defend him and say he's the truth.
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#59 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 02:22 PM

wasn't nugent suppose to make 50 yarders?? yeah. suppose to make game winning field goals? yeah. these aren't even pressure situations.
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#60 User is offline   JetsOhFive Icon

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (triple3s @ Oct 9 2005, 02:57 PM)
wasn't nugent suppose to make 50 yarders?? yeah. suppose to make game winning field goals? yeah. these aren't even pressure situations.

I would say that I want Doug Brien back, but it's not like he's doing any better.
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