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Iraq War Agree or Disagree

#1 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 11:15 AM

I was just wondering what some of your thoughts on the Iraq war were?
I have been chatting it up with a few guys in other topics. Any thoughts?
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#2 User is offline   ganggreen2003 Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 11:48 AM

BIGGEST MISTAKE the USA have ever made and I served in the US NAVY for 9 years and I am thankful I got out when I did...cause this is something I would not want to go over and do cause it's stupid and no need to be putting our men and women in harm's way just to get a few barrels of oil which apparently isn't workin cause GAS prices are rising like there is no tommorrow
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#3 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 11:53 AM

I see, we went to war for oil......I have been fighting for the wrong reason....let me tell my commanding officer so we can change our mission statement to reflect this.....
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#4 Guest_a1elbow_*

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE (JSOTF @ Apr 19 2005, 11:28 AM)
I see, we went to war for oil......I have been fighting for the wrong reason....let me tell my commanding officer so we can change our mission statement to reflect this.....


JSTOF, is that really the most constructive way to respond? I know you feel strongly about the war, and I understand (to some degree, as much as I can having never served in battle) why. But there are going to be people who never agree with war, and there are going to be people that will disagree with some wars. That doesn't take away from what you personally were fighting for.

As I have already said, I can't see how this war isn't largely about oil. A "rogue Country" (which is a statement I don't get. Rogue to whom? THe US doesn't listen to the UN, so I suppose it is rogue to us) was invaded. Why Iraq? Why not North Korea or any number of smaller, just as evil and oppressive dictatorships? Iraq is oil rich. As bad as things are over there right now, in the long run I think Iraq will be better off. But to me, that doesn't justify (to me) using faulty documents to convince the country war was the right thing.

I know you and your fellow soldiers went other there for noble reasons. Like a lot of people, you believed you were freeing a people from a horrible, villanous leader. And you did. I don't believe that the majority of our troops are torturers or sadistic. And I don't believe that any of our troops are war profiters, making money on the oil in Iraq.

But unfortunatly, I think you were sent over for two reasons. TO a lesser degree you were there to help free an oppressed people. But I also think the President and his oil company friends went out of their way to make this war happen because they knew that it would be good for their checkbooks.
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#5 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:48 PM

QUOTE (ganggreen2003 @ Apr 19 2005, 12:23 PM)
BIGGEST MISTAKE the USA have ever made


don't rule out vietnam so quickly wink.gif

JSOTF what are we in Iraq for?
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#6 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:03 PM

i don't think it's war for oil and i'm sick of people saying that it is. it's not only not true but it is a slap in the face of people serving over there. i don't serve because i have asthma but if i did it would be because my mom works in tall office buildings. everyone looks at the oil aspect because they don't want us to be there. i've got news for those people. nobody wants to be there. we have to be there though. theoretically, we don't have to be there. all we have to do is die but we, as a nation, don't want to die. we want to kill our enemies. people say that there is no al qaeda/iraq connection. well then why did al qaeda go around bombing and chopping off heads of people that were loyal to the U.S.A. and what we were trying to acomplish?

i'm not sure how to do a url on the new site but check this out.

http://edition.cnn.c...5/spain.invest/

as for why not north korea or iran? iraq was the biggest threat. we are already stretched thin enough by the war in iraq. kerry tried to get elected by telling everyone how stretched thin our military is right now. real american. we were policing iraq since the end of the first gulf war. you guys want to have us over there policing sadam's ass until he croaks. castro is 80 now? bush tried everthing to get the guy to play ball. all sadam could say is *beep* you mr. bush. kerry asked why not iran or north korea? as if he would authorize any sort of war that we needed to partake in. people like him just care about staying popular. it's like people are blaming the president that we have enemies abroad.

americans that tell me we don't have the right to go around kicking the shit out of scumbag nations after the atrocities that were perpatrated against this country on 9/11 should be shot. i'm not a fascist i really just think they don't have there head on strait. people were dancing in the streets all over the world when the towers fell. this was BEFORE bush waged an aggressive war against terror. americans had all of there i will never forget signs on there lawns for a few months but guess what? americans have forgotten. i blame kerry and moore and all the other phoney americans that spread lies all across this nation to achieve their political goals. i, for one, will not fall prey to those kinds of lies.
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#7 Guest_a1elbow_*

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:23 PM

Locojet, you have it backwards. People who say Iraq was a bigger threat than North Korea are just trying to justify the war.

North Korea has been just as out of control and disrespectful as Iraq. We "knew" both countries were treying to get nuclear weapons. As it stands, a whole lot of legitimate men and women who are in a position to have seen all the information have determined that our info about Iraq was faulty. The weapons inspectors never found anything, and there were a lot more there than in North Korea. Now we know N. Korea has WMDs, even had them when we attacked.

And the terrorists who are executing Americans in Iraq are mostly NOT Al'Queda, but people opposed to us being there at all and those who want Saddam back in power. Once again, there has been plenty of documentation that Saddam and Al'Queda had very bad relations and that Bin Laden personally had denounced him for being too western.

QUOTE
americans that tell me we don't have the right to go around kicking the shit out of scumbag nations after the atrocities that were perpatrated against this country on 9/11 should be shot. i'm not a fascist i really just think they don't have there head on strait.


What we did in Afghanistan was fine. They were fully harboring terrorists. What we did in Iraq was not. They didn't have the ties to Al' Queda that the Tallaban did. Even Bush no longer claims that, so don't use that as justification.
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#8 User is offline   pete2319 Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:24 PM

Are we really there to "free" the Iraqi people? Who are we now fighting? have you looked to see what type of people are still fighting us? It's not the Iraqi's. It's the F'ers that chose to attack innocent americans on our own soil. To question a soldier as to why he or she is there is outragous. They are there to protect PEOPLE, whether americans or foriegners, people that value and respect life and other people. We have built ourselves into a world powerhouse and we need to act like it.

The only thing I have to say about the war is THANK YOU, thank you for choosing to protect me and my family, giving me a little more peace of mind back, a glimpse of a better furture for my children.

Any of you who think this is an oil thing is wrong, yes the oil will be very valuable.... but do you really want that oil in the hands of people who will use it to buy and fund more weapons to use on you? Why do you think al queda is still there, why is iraq so important to them?
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#9 User is offline   ManginiIsMyHero Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (a1elbow @ Apr 19 2005, 02:58 PM)
Locojet, you have it backwards.  People who say Iraq was a bigger threat than North Korea are just trying to justify the war. 

North Korea has been just as out of control and disrespectful as Iraq.  We "knew" both countries were treying to get nuclear weapons.  As it stands, a whole lot of legitimate men and women who are in a position to have seen all the information have determined that our info about Iraq was faulty.  The weapons inspectors never found anything, and there were a lot more there than in North Korea.  Now we know N. Korea has WMDs, even had them when we attacked.

And the terrorists who are executing Americans in Iraq are mostly NOT Al'Queda, but people opposed to us being there at all and those who want Saddam back in power.  Once again, there has been plenty of documentation that Saddam and Al'Queda had very bad relations and that Bin Laden personally had denounced him for being too western. 
What we did in Afghanistan was fine.  They were fully harboring terrorists.  What we did in Iraq was not.  They didn't have the ties to Al' Queda that the Tallaban did.  Even Bush no longer claims that, so don't use that as justification.


N. Korea, and Bush is quoted to saying this, is not a threat to any of our closest allies. Not like Iraq is to Isreal. N. Korea also is a problem for India, China, Japan, and S. Korea. Now since everyone think Bush only makes enemies and then goes to war without allies then why has he been SO insistant on getting them to do something about their own damn problem. We defended those who needed defending and all those previously mentioned countries can in fact defend themselves. He wants them to do something about it. I believe it will be done. Oil is that the reason, you said it yourself, the oil prices are not going down. If it was for oil then that wouldn't be a problem. If it was about oil then we would have invaded the Saudis. Saddam was a very bad man, and I will believe until I die that we saved ourselves from even more terrorism in our country and around the world because we took action. Remember that we had a chance to do something about Hitler in 1939, but we didn't, and we payed the price of much greater magnitude and yet no one thinks that war was unnecessary. In history you either wait for a good reason to start a war, or you stop it before things get worse, usually the right thing is the wrong thing in the eyes of many.
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:49 PM

Has I have already said, we had no effective evidence that he had WMDs. On the other hand, we know North Korea does. And I know Bush has said that N. Korea doesn't pose a threat to our allies. WHich is why it is a joke when he also says the war was about freeing the Iraqi people.

What about the North Korean people? Why does a country have to be our ally for us to want to stop an evil dictator with the means to wage massive destruction on them? What about stopping that country before they do something like Nazi Germany?
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#11 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:51 PM

n. korea has probably been more out of control is a very true statement. there isn't much we could do about them seeing as how china is still backing them. attacking n. korea would be like starting the war we are trying to avoid on the pacific rim. it's pointless.

the same thing would happen if we attacked them that happened in '51. we would push the n. koreans all the way to the yalu and the chinese would attack us. that probably wouldn't happen exactly like it did in the korean conflict because the they have nuclear wepons now. and no it's not mr. bush's fault that they have these either.

i have problems with bush too but compared to kerry he is a godsend. kerry was sitting up there blaming bush that n. korea had nukes now when his political stance on communist nations is to lift embargos on them. just like clinton. bush is no saint but kerry needs to be committed.
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#12 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:57 PM

whether it was hasbala, hamas or al qaeda doesn't matter to me. they all want to see us burn for our support of israel. al qaeda did the bombings in madrid because it wanted spain to withdraw it's troops from iraq. spain capitulated. hasbala and hamas do the bombings on civilians in israel and decapitate people in iraq. just because they have a different name doesn't mean that they aren't the same beast.
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#13 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:03 PM

I love the talk about Weopons of Mass Destruction......If I was an evil dictator that wanted to push my laws and views on all me people, I would use Chemical weopons to prove that I wasnt playing games...(sound familiar?) Then I would stalemate the UN for as long as I could so that I could move or hide my 'WMD' to safe places, I dont know such as Syria? I really cannot believe that we would think Sadam would wait for us to come find all these weopons....
And were is all this oil that President Bush is recieving from this war?
Why was there a mural of 2 tall buildings with planes flying into them found in one of Sadams palaces?
Also, we are not killing Iraqis as much as we are killing individuals that are now entering the country to wage thier war against us...
There was a comment about the UN....I am going to look for an e-mail I got a long time ago about that fine organization......I will post it here for all to read, very interesting.........
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#14 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:05 PM

LocoJet,

Great post.....very interesting history there....
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:15 PM

thanks. you have some good points too. i didn't know about the murals at his palace. i want to expand on what you said about saddam and his wmds. the whole world knows that he used sarin on the iranians in the '80. ask them if he had wmds.
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#16 User is offline   floridajet Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:18 PM

As a VietVet I resent this war completely. While I honor our brave soldiers who are just doing their duty I resent the bs thrown our way by the Bush admn.

Why didn't we go after bin laden 100% before we go off trying to defend other people. And if we as a nation are so concerned about injustices and mass killings, genocide, etc. What happened to Africa?

This is toal BS and is the cronies getting rich over spilled American blood are the Bush buddies. You can agree or whatever but respect other people's opinions.

IMHO
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#17 User is offline   pete2319 Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:37 PM

ok, about the oil. Wasn't it the UN that didn't vote in with us going into Iraq? And doesn't the OIL for Food Scam all point to the UN, alot of money was funneled through that. So doesn't anyone see the connection as to why they didn't want us to in?
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:40 PM

i respect everyones opinion unless they start acting dumb. i see what you are saying but i disagree. i know alot of vets that are for this war. i look at it as everyone is saying "iraq, n. korea, darfur, iran etc. etc. why don't we go help them out?" well logistically speaking it's wise to only get into one war at a time. by that logic we wouldn't ever fight in wars. we all agree that iraq, darfur, n. korea, iran are *beep*ed up and something needs to be done. if we went into darfur there would be people saying why not iraq.
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#19 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:52 PM

We didn't go after Bin Laden?
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#20 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:54 PM

Florida Jet,

What are you talking about in Africa?..I am asking this for a reason.....
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