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S. I's Running Back Tandems

#61 User is offline   Jetsfan0099 Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 06:33 PM

Actually Beanz, Leon Washington did his best running when he had 20 to 23 carries in a game, check it out, he ran for over 100 yards in each of those games with a high average. I hate how people assume that Washington cant be a featured back because he is small, that doesnt matter the guy is tough and can flat out play football.
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#62 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 06:36 PM

Thank you for the Jetsfan0099, I forgot to point that out. You know Barry Sanders was the same size minus a pound or two, he was the greatest RB ever IMO.
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:23 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Mar 18 2007, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually Beanz, Leon Washington did his best running when he had 20 to 23 carries in a game, check it out, he ran for over 100 yards in each of those games with a high average. I hate how people assume that Washington cant be a featured back because he is small, that doesnt matter the guy is tough and can flat out play football.


exactly. however i watched leon play, and from watching him he seems to have trouble running between the tackles. thomas jones is excelent as an inside runnder and leon is as an oputside runner
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#64 User is offline   Jetsfan0099 Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:18 PM

Reggie Bush and the Deuce are the best RB combo in the game, they complement each other really good, though the Saints are still retarts for not getting Deuce the ball more, I think Peyton is one of the most overrated coaches in football. In the playoffs Deuce was destroying, so naturally he gets away from him. That is just plain out stupidity. I think Reggie Bush is a WR playing RB, look at his body type and you think WR, because he is long and thin like one. I would take Reggie Bush over Leon, though I think Leon is really good, I just like Reggie's playmaking skills, though the RB coming into the draft this year is better then both, Adrian Peterson. Its really pointless for these arguements, because we have our tandem and they have theirs. I am just sick of people saying that Leon cant be a featured back, its either because he is too small or the fact he was a 4th rounder. Leon sometimes did struggle up the middle, but alot has to be put on the o-line, they got blown up alot, and when Washington goes up the middle it seems like he always finds some little area then comes tumbling for a gain of 4. He was our best RB on our roster last year, but now we have a proven #1 RB in Jones, I cant wait till next season to see us be able to run the ball again!!! Though I am not expecting the 2004 rushing attack, when we had Martin and Jordan, because that was one sick RB tandem!!!
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#65 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:50 PM

Actually Deuce isn't a complimentary back at all. He's the perfect all-in-one type of every down back people are looking for. However, the Saints don't like the fact he got injured for the season 2 years in a row. He's not 1 dimensional by any means and he's a whole hell of a lot better than Reggie Bush. The problem is he got a few injuries because the Saints didn't give him the adequate protection he needed so he took alot of poundings. We gotta remember that Deuce was running for 1500 yards and 10+ TDs a season. He was considered one of the best RB's in the league too, but that goes to show what getting injured 2 times in a row will do for you. He missed the last two games of the season in 04, missed almost all of 05, and then he was considered injury prone. Ridiculous really. He's still a great back and he's gonna get the boot in NO's sooner than later because they have WAY too much money tied up in the RB position. He's pretty darn productive though.
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#66 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Mar 18 2007, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually Beanz, Leon Washington did his best running when he had 20 to 23 carries in a game, check it out, he ran for over 100 yards in each of those games with a high average. I hate how people assume that Washington cant be a featured back because he is small, that doesnt matter the guy is tough and can flat out play football.


I said this. I pointed this out. I said Washington's best games are when he carried it 20 times in the game. Look back at my posts, I SAID THIS. When I posted his running totals, I said most of his yards came when he carried it 20 or more times. I also said it only happened twice, which is far too few occurances to make statements based upon. On the flip side, he had many more games with 5-10 touches where he was very effective. This is why many people, including myself, say he is better suited to be a situational back, where he will be well rested and able to use his agility more. There are more examples to base this statement on than there are to say he can carry it 20 times. It only happened twice.

No one knows if he can be an every down back or not. I never said he couldn't. No one here said he couldn't. The whole thing stemmed from you saying that calling Leon "a poor man's Reggie Bush" is an insult. And I, as well as some other people here apparently, disagree with you.

And, thanks for responding to my post in such an arrogent, dickheaded manner. Is that the way moderators act around here? I asked a simple question, "Have you ever played football before?" It's a fair question, being that those hits you posted are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. One knocked the wind out of someone, while the other was a hit laid on the upper body. I'm sorry you took such offense to this. I'm very releaved to know that you're being recruited by a flag football team though. That makes me take back any questions I may have had. My little brother plays flag football too. Maybe he can join your team.

This is an area for people to post opinions. I'm so sorry that you take such offense to my opinions. NOT ONCE DID I SAY LEON CAN'T BE AN EVERYDOWN BACK, which seems to be what you take most offense to. I said REGGIE BUSH IS BETTER THAN LEON WASHINGTON. But, somehow, you twisted this into an insult aimed at Leon. So, you took it upon yourself to name yourself the head of the "show Leon some goddamn love society." It's incredible. I stand by my opinion. You can call it a hype machine. I call it looking at the whole body of work objectively. Whether Bush stopped on a dime and cut it across field against Fresno State or the god-damn ALL-NFL team, he still did it. He's a better athlete from what I've observed.

Now, let me start your next response for you, "I've posted video evidence and statistics, you stupid asshole, why can't you agree with me I'm clearly right you have no right to post here you dumbass. I'm the all powerful moderator and will say whatever I want because no one will punish my dickheaded actions."
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Mar 18 2007, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
exactly. however i watched leon play, and from watching him he seems to have trouble running between the tackles. thomas jones is excelent as an inside runnder and leon is as an oputside runner


I agree Leon Washington is BETTER at running outside but I'm tired of people saying he has trouble inside. The only time he had trouble is when no one blocked and he got hit behind the line of scrimmage. All year when he got some blocking he was actually very effective up the middle.

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 18 2007, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't understand how you can see the screen plays Leon turned into a 60 yard play and not say that he isn't on par with Reggie in that category. In fact, I haven't seen Reggie break anyone's ankles on the NFL level. The only impressive play I saw from Reggie Bush where I was like, "Wow, Ok!" was that screen pass he took for a TD but that had nothing to do with anything but speed.

Leon and Reggie both took very similar hits. One guy pops right up because he's a tough running back. The other stays down for 5 minutes and doesn't hold onto the ball..... how about that. I guess Reggie is the better receiver though.....Reggie drops the ball, Leon holds onto it. Reggie sits on the ground crying like an overpaid millionaire baby and Leon just pops right back up because he's a badass.
http://www.youtube.c...=ntGDG437pFk&NR
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0r37B0ZpSlg


So biased. its unbelievable. and you're going to say that the only Wow play you saw from bush was that screen. what about the amazing move he did in the bears game. you've got to be kidding me. you're just biased. its simple.
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#69 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 18 2007, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, let me start your next response for you, "I've posted video evidence and statistics, you stupid asshole, why can't you agree with me I'm clearly right you have no right to post here you dumbass. I'm the all powerful moderator and will say whatever I want because no one will punish my dickheaded actions."


I felt the same way, about how jetson acted in another topic with me. but its all good. lets just leave it to posting on football. I don't knwo why the other one is locked now. I was still discussing with another person. but its ok. Just post. you just got here and we just gotta deal with it.
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#70 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:22 PM

jetson...I think you're being a little unfair. Consider, for a moment, if their roles were reversed. What if Leon was the number 2 overall pick and Reggie was a 4th rounder. Would your argument be any different? I think if Reggie was a 4th rounder people would be screaming at what he accomplished in his rookie year. Conversely...if Leon was the number 2 overall...he would have been a big dissapointment.

You say he is over-hyped...but I would take it a step further to say he is a victim of the hype machine. There is no way he could ever live up to the hype he had coming out of college. That isn' Reggie's fault...he didn't ask for that.

Really...this argument is impossibile to really make...because neither have a body of work large enough to judge with any amount of fairness and accuracy. Neither has been given the job of carrying the load as a premier back...and neither may be capable of it. That doesn't make them bad...it makes them different. So what if Leon and Reggie need big backs to compliment them...that doesn't take away from the amazing speed and agility they possess. It doesn't take away from their game breaking athleticism. Regardless of whether one is better between the tackles or not...I think we can all agree both Reggie Bush and Leon Washington are better on the perimeter and in open space. And that is how their team's should try and get them the ball. That is why Sean Payton very smartly threw the ball to Reggie a lot and gave him reverses and end arounds. If you look at Leon's best plays...they are almost all screen passes and stretch plays. It doesn't make them bad RB's...it just means you have to get the ball in their hands in different ways.
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:37 PM

QUOTE (triple3s @ Mar 19 2007, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I felt the same way, about how jetson acted in another topic with me. but its all good. lets just leave it to posting on football. I don't knwo why the other one is locked now. I was still discussing with another person. but its ok. Just post. you just got here and we just gotta deal with it.


I don't know what took place inside that thread but it was closed because certain people on this board don't know how to behave and act their age. I don't care how many other people were having rational conversations their were a few others who ruined it for everyone else, so before you blame us mods blame you're fellow brethren.

Cheers


QUOTE (HurricaneJet32 @ Mar 19 2007, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
jetson...I think you're being a little unfair. Consider, for a moment, if their roles were reversed. What if Leon was the number 2 overall pick and Reggie was a 4th rounder. Would your argument be any different? I think if Reggie was a 4th rounder people would be screaming at what he accomplished in his rookie year. Conversely...if Leon was the number 2 overall...he would have been a big dissapointment.

You say he is over-hyped...but I would take it a step further to say he is a victim of the hype machine. There is no way he could ever live up to the hype he had coming out of college. That isn' Reggie's fault...he didn't ask for that.

Really...this argument is impossibile to really make...because neither have a body of work large enough to judge with any amount of fairness and accuracy. Neither has been given the job of carrying the load as a premier back...and neither may be capable of it. That doesn't make them bad...it makes them different. So what if Leon and Reggie need big backs to compliment them...that doesn't take away from the amazing speed and agility they possess. It doesn't take away from their game breaking athleticism. Regardless of whether one is better between the tackles or not...I think we can all agree both Reggie Bush and Leon Washington are better on the perimeter and in open space. And that is how their team's should try and get them the ball. That is why Sean Payton very smartly threw the ball to Reggie a lot and gave him reverses and end arounds. If you look at Leon's best plays...they are almost all screen passes and stretch plays. It doesn't make them bad RB's...it just means you have to get the ball in their hands in different ways.


Great post!! this is a good way to rid ourselves of this relentless rant fest. If we want to continue to discuss RATIONALLY about this then fine but this sh!t has to stop.

Good post Hurricane

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#72 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 18 2007, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I said this. I pointed this out. I said Washington's best games are when he carried it 20 times in the game. Look back at my posts, I SAID THIS. When I posted his running totals, I said most of his yards came when he carried it 20 or more times. I also said it only happened twice, which is far too few occurances to make statements based upon. On the flip side, he had many more games with 5-10 touches where he was very effective. This is why many people, including myself, say he is better suited to be a situational back, where he will be well rested and able to use his agility more. There are more examples to base this statement on than there are to say he can carry it 20 times. It only happened twice.

No one knows if he can be an every down back or not. I never said he couldn't. No one here said he couldn't. The whole thing stemmed from you saying that calling Leon "a poor man's Reggie Bush" is an insult. And I, as well as some other people here apparently, disagree with you.

And, thanks for responding to my post in such an arrogent, dickheaded manner. Is that the way moderators act around here? I asked a simple question, "Have you ever played football before?" It's a fair question, being that those hits you posted are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. One knocked the wind out of someone, while the other was a hit laid on the upper body. I'm sorry you took such offense to this. I'm very releaved to know that you're being recruited by a flag football team though. That makes me take back any questions I may have had. My little brother plays flag football too. Maybe he can join your team.

This is an area for people to post opinions. I'm so sorry that you take such offense to my opinions. NOT ONCE DID I SAY LEON CAN'T BE AN EVERYDOWN BACK, which seems to be what you take most offense to. I said REGGIE BUSH IS BETTER THAN LEON WASHINGTON. But, somehow, you twisted this into an insult aimed at Leon. So, you took it upon yourself to name yourself the head of the "show Leon some goddamn love society." It's incredible. I stand by my opinion. You can call it a hype machine. I call it looking at the whole body of work objectively. Whether Bush stopped on a dime and cut it across field against Fresno State or the god-damn ALL-NFL team, he still did it. He's a better athlete from what I've observed.

Now, let me start your next response for you, "I've posted video evidence and statistics, you stupid asshole, why can't you agree with me I'm clearly right you have no right to post here you dumbass. I'm the all powerful moderator and will say whatever I want because no one will punish my dickheaded actions."


the guy u quoted isn't even a mod? people are gonna differ in opinions and misread stuff. relax buddy.


QUOTE (BESTHANDS8381 @ Mar 18 2007, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree Leon Washington is BETTER at running outside but I'm tired of people saying he has trouble inside. The only time he had trouble is when no one blocked and he got hit behind the line of scrimmage. All year when he got some blocking he was actually very effective up the middle.


our blocking up the middle wasn't great so its not all his fault. but his inside skills are weak. leon is better in space he's alot like westbrook and westbrook is a great RB. leo can be a starter but jones is much better inside. leon can't break tackles, but he can make people miss. jones doens't have leons shiftyness or speed, but he can make people miss and run through tackles.

QUOTE (HurricaneJet32 @ Mar 18 2007, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
jetson...I think you're being a little unfair. Consider, for a moment, if their roles were reversed. What if Leon was the number 2 overall pick and Reggie was a 4th rounder. Would your argument be any different? I think if Reggie was a 4th rounder people would be screaming at what he accomplished in his rookie year. Conversely...if Leon was the number 2 overall...he would have been a big dissapointment.

You say he is over-hyped...but I would take it a step further to say he is a victim of the hype machine. There is no way he could ever live up to the hype he had coming out of college. That isn' Reggie's fault...he didn't ask for that.

Really...this argument is impossibile to really make...because neither have a body of work large enough to judge with any amount of fairness and accuracy. Neither has been given the job of carrying the load as a premier back...and neither may be capable of it. That doesn't make them bad...it makes them different. So what if Leon and Reggie need big backs to compliment them...that doesn't take away from the amazing speed and agility they possess. It doesn't take away from their game breaking athleticism. Regardless of whether one is better between the tackles or not...I think we can all agree both Reggie Bush and Leon Washington are better on the perimeter and in open space. And that is how their team's should try and get them the ball. That is why Sean Payton very smartly threw the ball to Reggie a lot and gave him reverses and end arounds. If you look at Leon's best plays...they are almost all screen passes and stretch plays. It doesn't make them bad RB's...it just means you have to get the ball in their hands in different ways.



exactly. reggie is a better player then leon, but leon is cheaper and had less expectations. is easy to say a guy had no hype and did good so he's better then someone who was supposed to be a pro bowler, but only did good. leon is a better runner then reggie, but reggie is a better athlete, reciever, PR, and football player.
Get it done MT
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#73 User is offline   VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs Icon

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 18 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're really annoying and disrespectful I thought you should know. I hate people who want to label others "homers" because they disagree with them. It's pretty irritating to me.... trust me. Since you need me to hold your hand and tell you when it's "doody time" I guess I'll attempt this one more time, but on a more simple stage so you can better understand it without being so confused and mislead.

I think it's you who is being disrespectful. People are saying that Bush is better and you chalk that up to the "hype machine". As if none of us have actually seen Bush play. And Hurricane is absolutely right. The hype machine only hurts Reggie. He had a solid rookie season, but because he only averaged 3.6 yards/carry people are quick to call him a bust because of all the hype he got in college. And those two hits that you posted are not even comparable.
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#74 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:24 AM

QUOTE (VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs @ Mar 19 2007, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it's you who is being disrespectful.


I'm not sure how that adds up to me being disrespectful..... but this should paint a nice picture of how my opinion was treated through out this wohle thread.

QUOTE (beanz)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm done trying to argue this. You're hopeless.

QUOTE (beanz)
very well said. But don't worry, he'll be sure to come back with some stats for you. Because as we know, "the stats don't lie."

QUOTE (beanz)
That's retarded.

QUOTE (triple3s)
That's so dumb what you said about playing the slot.

QUOTE (beanz)
You gotta be f***ing kidding me with this example. Have you ever played football?

QUOTE (beanz)
I hate homers.


I'm not sure how I've abused any moderator privileges either, but go ahead and PM with your issues and I'll be sure to give it attention and if apologies are needed then so be it. But I'm going to warn you beanz because name calling is a no no.

As for HurricaneJet32's comments, let that be an example of how to "respectfully" disagree with someone and instead of calling them a dumb shit actually say something meaningful. I find calling Leon a poor man's Reggie Bush insulting when statistics show that Reggie Bush didn't out perform Leon Washington other than catching 60 more passes which is hardly Leon's fault and hardly an area that "I" judge a running back on. I'm not sure why that was so hard to understand or why I'm a "hopeless homer" that should be "hated" and laughed at because that's the way I see it.
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:52 AM

Look guys no one is dumb,retarded (although I know you directed that towards me beanz). Truth is believe it or not, this is one of the better Jets fan boards their are because most of us that post on here are very knowledgeable and it's not a huge board full of trolls and homers like others. People need to chill out on the personal attacks during a discussion because in the end nobody actually makes their point because of all the rhetoric inbetween. Everyone on this board is an equal party. Veteran posters,new members and mods are all on an even playing field and all may voice their opinion without prejudice or be reticuled in the process. I enjoy heated discussion and the sharing of different view points as much of as the next guy and friendly jawing and bantering is permitted but learn to control yourselves and keep it civil and PLEASE don't let it get out of line.

beanz... you're new here and I enjoy reading you're posts because most of the time you share valuable insight that frankly I think is worth reading but this is the 2nd or 3rd in as many weeks you have lost you're cool and started with the personal attacks and name calling. I think you have the potential to be a valued member if you could learn some people skills (no disrespect). Sometimes it's better not to say anything at all and if you have a problem with someone PM a mod and share you're gripes with us and let us handle the situation before it gets out of hand.


I figured I'd get the last words because this thread would never end and it would be a ongoing b!tch fest. I HATE closing topics because I think things can be worked out but I'm officially closing this one and hope we become better board members with future posts.


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