NYJetsFan.com Forums: What Tomlin Did That Mangini Didn't - NYJetsFan.com Forums

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER

ganggreen2003 Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:52 PM) Week 5 Bye after the London Game against the Dolphags
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) Rivers is likely going to Tennessee. Would LOVE to have him here but we likely won't make the trade. I'd easily give this year and next year
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) 's first rounder for him
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 11:03 AM) IMO that's a steep price. I would swap this years first and a conditional 1st next year. Assuming we make the AFC Championship. That would be a 28-32nd pick. Otherwise a second.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:07 PM) Yes 2 1st is a lot
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:10 PM) draft is next week, pumped
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:02 PM) What are thoughts on getting a RB in round 1? McShay's newest mock has us taking Gurley at 6. I don't think we should take him that high, but if we trade down and he's available I'd love to snag him, ACL and all. He's got an unreal skill set that, once healthy, will translate readily to the NFL. We're not getting a QB this year without paying a king's ransom, and unless we pay a ransom for a top guy I say ignore QB. I don't want us to take a Hundley or Petty type in the 2nd or 3rd round when we need other pieces (edge rush, OL)
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:09 PM) We can probably get Gordon in the second. I would pass at 6. If QB is not available a pass rusher will be. Our biggest needs are QB Pass rusher and Oline.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:34 PM) any thourghts on shane ray? i see a lot of mocks have us drafting him
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:35 PM) last one i seen had us taking cooper, a RB, and hundley for our 1st 3 picks. not thrilled about that
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:38 PM) I don't like Gordon much. Not much of a receiver or blocker, ball security issues, tries to bounce outside too much, stuffed frequently. Gurley is in a league of his own
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:39 PM) Ray is pretty highly regarded. I'm betting he, Dupree, and Gregory will be our best options as well as edge rushers at 6, but I think that's too high for any of them
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:43 PM) Personally love Cooper, I know WR isn't our biggest need but he may be the most NFL ready guy in the Draft. If we stick to the 6th pick and Fowler, Beasley, and Mariota are gone, Cooper is the guy to get. I'd even take him over Beasley
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) i don't mind cooper. decker isn't number 1 IMO and marshall is expensive and getting old
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) and we never draft a WR high
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) but o-line and QB are huge needs. i wouldn't take o-line 6th overall, but i think our 2nd or 3rd should be o-line
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:46 PM) we need an OLB as well. if we don't land a QB i'd like to see OLB adn O-line with 2 of our top 3 picks
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:16 PM) I agree on Deck, not a true #1 and he's had a checkered history with injuries. Marshall has 2, maybe 3 productive years left, which is why Cooper is an option
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:17 PM) And I agree with you on edge rusher & OL being bigger needs, but there really isn't a lineman I'd take at 6
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:19 PM) So the way I see it, assuming Winston and Mariota are taken when we're at 6, that Fowler and Cooper are our best choices, and I'd be stunned if Fowler drops. I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if we land Cooper
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:47 PM) Apparently Tennessee wanted both of Cleveland's #1's and their 2nd rounder to move up to the #2 spot to get Mariota. Still think two 1st rounders are too much for Rivers? He makes us instant contenders and if we make a deep playoff run, it would really be this year's 1st and what equates to basically a 2nd rounder next year.
If not, get Cooper in the 1st and then grab Hundley in the 2nd and O-line in the 3rd.
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:05 PM) I wouldn't be upset with Cooper, hes a stud
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:06 PM) Not sure about Ray. Dupree is rising on the draft boards, ridiculously athletic for his size
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:07 PM) Dupree is 6'4 270 and has a amazing get off and runs a 4.5
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Problem is he doesn't have big sack numbers in college, I rather draft a productive guy high
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Vic Beasley is insanely athletic as well and was hugely productive in college, good bet is that Beasley will be a 10+ sack guy in the NFL
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:12 PM) Beasley should be a stud but he gets caught up hand fighting if he doesn't beat his guy quickly. He'll likely end up as an OLB but we'll see
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:15 PM) He'd be a good fit in our defense, because we could use that speed guy on the outside
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:27 AM) I'd love Rivers, but we should be able to get him without paying 2 first rounders
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:29 AM) Lot of buzz about Dupree going top 10, most mocks I see have us getting either Ray or Dupree at 6. I prefer Dupree, like you said insane athlete for his size
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:30 AM) I like Beasley as well but I have a strong feeling Washington will snag him. But he is a small dude, it'd be nice if he'd add some bulk (in Clemson reportedly played around 230)
Chaos Icon : (23 April 2015 - 10:11 AM) @ArifHasanNFL

.@LanceZierlein says on http://sports790.com that Shane Ray will need surgery on foot, 5 months recovery. "Could drop out of first"
Chaos Icon : (23 April 2015 - 10:14 AM) this should change up the top 10
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 12:16 PM) Damn that's big. If he drops out of round 1 that could be a massive bargain for whoever gets him round 2. Dupree now looks more like the edge rusher we'd get at 6
MikeGangGree... Icon : (24 April 2015 - 09:40 PM) TEH RANGERS
santana Icon : (24 April 2015 - 11:32 PM) TEH WIZ
Jetsman05 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:57 AM) Teh Suarez
Jetsman05 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:58 AM) Vic Beasley is all speed. No moves, no power. Straight up the field. Could have some big games, then nothing in the next
Jetsman05 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:59 AM) If we don't get Mariota, we should be looking at Schreff or trading down, IMO.
Jetsman05 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:59 AM) A lot of good edge rushers in this draft... I wouldn't want to take Dupree that high.
Jetsman05 Icon : (Yesterday, 07:00 AM) Until next time fellas!
azjetfan Icon : (Yesterday, 01:19 PM) Helloooooooooo
azjetfan Icon : (Yesterday, 01:19 PM) Bueller
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 01:33 PM) Manish says the Jets should trade down and draft Andrus Peat round 1
azjetfan Icon : (Yesterday, 04:39 PM) Even an idiot can say something that's right every now and then
Resize Shouts Area

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

What Tomlin Did That Mangini Didn't

#1 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

  • 2008 Best Insider Award
  • Icon
  • View blog
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 31,145
  • Joined: 02-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:---
  • Interests:Hardcore Jets & Knicks fan - Gym rat - health and nutrition - family man and proud father.

    Twitter: @NYJETSFANCOM

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Post icon  Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE
t's a start that coaches greet with cautious optimism, and praise for Tomlin's lack of action. Many coaches take head coaching jobs and install familiar schemes, fire coaches they view as a threat to their vision, and reshape rosters with their own brand of players. Instead, Tomlin tried a more patient approach. One season removed from a Super Bowl win, he stayed true to the scheme by retaining several key components of the coaching staff. The centerpiece was LeBeau, who is widely considered one of the NFL's best defensive minds and who has spent nearly as many years coaching in the NFL (34) as Tomlin has spent on planet Earth (35)

0

#2 User is offline   theanalogkid Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,913
  • Joined: 26-October 05

  • NFL Team:

Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:50 PM

If Mangini was the HC of the Steelers he'd probably have kept LeBeau too.
...no hero in your tradgey, no daring in your escape, no salutes to your surrender, nothing noble in your fate....Rush, The Pass.

0

#3 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

  • 2008 Best Insider Award
  • Icon
  • View blog
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 31,145
  • Joined: 02-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:---
  • Interests:Hardcore Jets & Knicks fan - Gym rat - health and nutrition - family man and proud father.

    Twitter: @NYJETSFANCOM

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (theanalogkid @ Oct 18 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Mangini was the HC of the Steelers he'd probably have kept LeBeau too.


Yea I don't think the question is whether to keep Lebeau because he's the best DC in the game. However Mangini did this team an injustice by getting rid of certain players. Sowell, Mawae and Kendall so not only does this statement reflect coaches it does the same for players as well.
0

#4 User is offline   theanalogkid Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,913
  • Joined: 26-October 05

  • NFL Team:

Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:02 PM

Getting rid of Mawae was no big deal considering the transition to Mangold was seamless. Both he and Sowell were both heavily involved with the union and would be giving Mangini a hard time trying to get this team in shape. Beisdes both were over 30 and both are likely to retire within a season or two.
...no hero in your tradgey, no daring in your escape, no salutes to your surrender, nothing noble in your fate....Rush, The Pass.

0

#5 User is offline   Jetsfan0099 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 17,113
  • Joined: 30-July 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:15 PM

Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..
Posted Image
0

#6 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,703
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:New York

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..


Really hit the nail on the head there.
Posted Image
0

#7 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:47 AM

Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#8 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 8,275
  • Joined: 10-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys


And what makes you think that? He has had the Steelers playing well this year, something Cowher struggled at times to do last year. Cowher wasn't helped with Big Ben's preseason exploits but then again, he was healthy come a couple of weeks into the season.
0

#9 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Oct 19 2007, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And what makes you think that? He has had the Steelers playing well this year, something Cowher struggled at times to do last year. Cowher wasn't helped with Big Ben's preseason exploits but then again, he was healthy come a couple of weeks into the season.




Cowher won a superbowl. These are Cowher's players not Tomlin. When Herman Edwards came here he took over Parcells players for those many years he took us to the playoffs. Herman never finished better than 10-6 in his carrer. He Struggles to make the playoffs every year one way or the other.


Untill this is Tomlin's team he is overrated and not worth my time to talk about
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#10 User is offline   HarlemHxC814 Icon

  • 06 Best Avatar Award / N.O.P. GUARD
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 5,160
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys


Ok, I'll believe you instead
Posted Image
0

#11 User is offline   Kirby JUICE Icon

  • Drafted Rookie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 157
  • Joined: 26-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty Jerz

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..


I didn't blame last Mangini for installing the 3-4... With teams transitioning to the two-headed running attack and putting more emphasis on the ground game, I think it's a good call.

I still don't blame him 100% for not getting all of the personnel, because it's a big transition. He got a good MLB in David Harris and a good 3-4 end in Kenyon Coleman.

However, the biggest and most obvious weakness is a lack of NT. Mangini insists this undersized, explosive NT idea is effective... meanwhile D-rob gets raped all game long. The Jets could also use another good pass rusher (Terrell Suggs??), but if Mangini doesn't do anything about the NT problem in the offseason, THEN I will blame him.
0

#12 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 02:00 PM

Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.



Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.


The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#13 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,703
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:New York

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.
Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.
The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.


huh.gif
Posted Image
0

#14 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 05:05 PM

QUOTE (HurricaneJet32 @ Oct 19 2007, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
huh.gif



WTF.gif we both can do that
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#15 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,703
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Location:New York

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WTF.gif we both can do that

ninja.gif
Posted Image
0

#16 User is offline   JIG-SAW Icon

  • Special Teams
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 307
  • Joined: 02-May 07

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.



Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.


The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.




what are you talking about??? In 2004 we finished 7th in total defense and 2005 we still finished 12th despite injuries and an offense who couldnt keep the defense off the fuking field..I'd say it was working just fine



0

#17 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 20 October 2007 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE (JIG-SAW @ Oct 20 2007, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what are you talking about??? In 2004 we finished 7th in total defense and 2005 we still finished 12th despite injuries and an offense who couldnt keep the defense off the fuking field..I'd say it was working just fine






So you are going to base your thoughts on one year against shitty teams we played in 05? Even USF could stop those offenses we played in 05. and again thats only one year that worked out. Pittsburg had the same defense forever man
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#18 User is offline   ozjet51 Icon

  • Pro Bowl
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 428
  • Joined: 31-March 05
  • Location:Victoria, Australia

  • NFL Team:

Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:00 AM

i read nfl.com in the "The 10 storylines to watch for in Week 7" by pat kirwan that the steelers have not let up a 100 yard rusher since 2005, i think that just about says everything about the difference between pittsburgh and nyj
0

#19 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,475
  • Joined: 23-August 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:05 AM

QUOTE (ozjet51 @ Oct 20 2007, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i read nfl.com in the "The 10 storylines to watch for in Week 7" by pat kirwan that the steelers have not let up a 100 yard rusher since 2005, i think that just about says everything about the difference between pittsburgh and nyj




Thank you!


Again you dont give up whats working for you. Tomlin is working with his players like Herman tryed to do when he got here. It took him awhile to change this defense into a cover 2. You can't base one year of being ranked #7 the cover 2 being a better defense than the 3-4. There was a reason why we changed our defense and personal because it was NOT CLEARY WORKING. we were last against the run and top rank passing defense because we were getting runed over for 150 yards a game.
<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/Jedi+Master1121.swf" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>
0

#20 User is offline   JIG-SAW Icon

  • Special Teams
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 307
  • Joined: 02-May 07

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:20 AM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 20 2007, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you are going to base your thoughts on one year against shitty teams we played in 05? Even USF could stop those offenses we played in 05. and again thats only one year that worked out. Pittsburg had the same defense forever man


i didnt know the 2004 and 2005 seasons constitued as 1 year...I see your point with the steelers Defense but saying the Cover-2 wasnt working is wrong and Donnie Henderson did a Helluva job turning this defense around he shouldnt of been let go for Sutton's sorry ass



0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users