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S. I's Running Back Tandems

#21 User is offline   cmart=the best Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:51 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 13 2007, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A poor man's Reggie-Duece combo? Now if THAT isn't insulting I don't know what is. First off Leon can actually run the ball 10 times better than Reggie. What does Reggie average, 3.6 a carry? Leon averages 4.3 ... that's a whole lot better than 3.6 I'll tell you that right now. Duece vs Jones? I'll take Jones 10 times out of 10. Duece is fragile and I prefer Jones running style and his monster arms. He breaks tackles and necks with those guns.

Seriously, have you been hearing that because that's gonna really piss me off? It's so retarded it's not even funny. Leon played better than Reggie.

Don't believe me? It's because you're believing the HYPE MACHINE known as Reggie Bush. OVER RATED!
See for yourself!
Reggie Bush: http://www.nfl.com/p...ayerpage/407605
Leon Washington: http://www.nfl.com/p...ayerpage/423207

Rushing Yards:
Bush | 565 | 3.6 Average | 6 TDs | 27 First Downs | 18 Longest Run
Leon | 650 | 4.3 Average | 4 TDs | 33 First Downs | 23 Longest Run

Receiving Yards:
Bush | 742 Yards | 88 Receptions | 8.4 Yards/Catch | 2 TDs | 74 Longest Catch
Leon | 270 Yards | 25 Receptions | 10.8 Yards/Catch | 0 TDs | 64 Longest Catch
Reggie Bush touched the ball 68 times more than Leon did. Look at the difference. Mostly those touches were in receptions. Can you imagine if we threw Leon 63 more screen passes? Get outta here! Poor man's huh? Why, because he was a 4th round pick and had ZERO hype? Maybe that's what it is. FRB! [ F*ck Reggie Bush ]

Leon isn't a poor mans Reggie, he's better and I honestly believe that which is why I was a little bit upset with the Thomas Jones acquisition. I'm pretty sure that Thomas Jones is better than Duece. DM is good, I'm not saying he sucks. But he's not better than TJ. I'm really pissed off that you're hearing that. Damn your ears biggrin.gif.


Yes I really have been hearing that but the people who I have been hearing that from are Eagles fans and they're freaking retarded and they thought their team was a SB team in the playoffs crazy.gif . Anyway you dont know how many times i've been through defending the Jets they're so stupid. The only reason why I threw that in their was just to draw a comparrison to the 2 backfields and that we should try to do some pre play sets like the Saints when they had both Duece and Reggie in at the same time. But I'm sure with Mangini and Schotty's inteligence we can do much more creative stuff w/ Leon and Jones in there.

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#22 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 13 2007, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A poor man's Reggie-Duece combo? Now if THAT isn't insulting I don't know what is. First off Leon can actually run the ball 10 times better than Reggie. What does Reggie average, 3.6 a carry? Leon averages 4.3 ... that's a whole lot better than 3.6 I'll tell you that right now. Duece vs Jones? I'll take Jones 10 times out of 10. Duece is fragile and I prefer Jones running style and his monster arms. He breaks tackles and necks with those guns.

Seriously, have you been hearing that because that's gonna really piss me off? It's so retarded it's not even funny. Leon played better than Reggie.

Don't believe me? It's because you're believing the HYPE MACHINE known as Reggie Bush. OVER RATED!
See for yourself!
Reggie Bush: http://www.nfl.com/p...ayerpage/407605
Leon Washington: http://www.nfl.com/p...ayerpage/423207

Rushing Yards:
Bush | 565 | 3.6 Average | 6 TDs | 27 First Downs | 18 Longest Run
Leon | 650 | 4.3 Average | 4 TDs | 33 First Downs | 23 Longest Run

Receiving Yards:
Bush | 742 Yards | 88 Receptions | 8.4 Yards/Catch | 2 TDs | 74 Longest Catch
Leon | 270 Yards | 25 Receptions | 10.8 Yards/Catch | 0 TDs | 64 Longest Catch
Reggie Bush touched the ball 68 times more than Leon did. Look at the difference. Mostly those touches were in receptions. Can you imagine if we threw Leon 63 more screen passes? Get outta here! Poor man's huh? Why, because he was a 4th round pick and had ZERO hype? Maybe that's what it is. FRB! [ F*ck Reggie Bush ]

Leon isn't a poor mans Reggie, he's better and I honestly believe that which is why I was a little bit upset with the Thomas Jones acquisition. I'm pretty sure that Thomas Jones is better than Duece. DM is good, I'm not saying he sucks. But he's not better than TJ. I'm really pissed off that you're hearing that. Damn your ears biggrin.gif.


IMO Jones and Washington are a 'poor man's' Bush-McAllister as Washington doesn't offer the all around threat that Bush does. I would take McAllister over Jones but not Washington over Bush simply because teams have to account for Bush whenever he is on the field and he is nearly as good in the slot as he is at tailback whereas Leon is less of a receiving threat.
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#23 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Mar 14 2007, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IMO Jones and Washington are a 'poor man's' Bush-McAllister as Washington doesn't offer the all around threat that Bush does. I would take McAllister over Jones but not Washington over Bush simply because teams have to account for Bush whenever he is on the field and he is nearly as good in the slot as he is at tailback whereas Leon is less of a receiving threat.


Agreed. To say Washington is better, or as good, as Bush is absurd and biased. Bush can lineup in the slot and pose as much of a threat as Marshall Faulk once did. Yea, Washington is shifty, BUT PLEASE. Some people are so biased it's insane.
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#24 User is offline   nysackexchange Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 02:27 PM

I think Bush's YPC are skewed.. they were AWFUL during the beginning of the year and stepped it up better towards the end. I still believe he was overhyped as a runner. He's a great out of the backfield receiver and occasional runner but he'll never be effective by himself. Adrian Peterson is a MUCH better RB prospect than Reggie.

Leon is just sick wit it we all know that. 4.3 YPC behind out suspect run blocking o-line is pretty damn good.
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#25 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 14 2007, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agreed. To say Washington is better, or as good, as Bush is absurd and biased. Bush can lineup in the slot and pose as much of a threat as Marshall Faulk once did. Yea, Washington is shifty, BUT PLEASE. Some people are so biased it's insane.


Yeah .. biased because he DID BETTER! Some people are easily influenced by what the media world tells them to do and where in a draft someone was taken. I'm talking numbers here. I'm talking playmaking. Bush is a playmaker but so is Washington and he showed that alot.

We don't have to line Washington up in a slot. I'm sure we could but that's not what the point is. He ran the ball a whole lot better than Bush and had a better receiving average. I think teams were saying "You gotta watch #29 out there." Obviously Bush gets attention because he's Reggie Bush but I don't think he's a good running back and he's got a really big ego right now.

So is that biased.... sure whatever. But I watched Leon play and you guys don't give him any credit whatsoever. He played on par with Maroney too but some of you think Leon is merely a 3rd down back at best. That's bullshit. I brought the numbers and stats don't lie.
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#26 User is offline   gmany3k Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:18 PM

I felt the same way about the Bush hype before he even stepped on the field.
I am not much of a stats guy but at the end of the season I think I saw that bush didn't make the top 20 in any catorgory as an RB.I felt the same way about Ricky williams when he came out of college. Ricky won't have any records in the NfL when he calls it a day.
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#27 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 15 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah .. biased because he DID BETTER! Some people are easily influenced by what the media world tells them to do and where in a draft someone was taken. I'm talking numbers here. I'm talking playmaking. Bush is a playmaker but so is Washington and he showed that alot.

We don't have to line Washington up in a slot. I'm sure we could but that's not what the point is. He ran the ball a whole lot better than Bush and had a better receiving average. I think teams were saying "You gotta watch #29 out there." Obviously Bush gets attention because he's Reggie Bush but I don't think he's a good running back and he's got a really big ego right now.

So is that biased.... sure whatever. But I watched Leon play and you guys don't give him any credit whatsoever. He played on par with Maroney too but some of you think Leon is merely a 3rd down back at best. That's bullshit. I brought the numbers and stats don't lie.


Who are you trying to convince, me or you?

Teams have to alter their entire defensive game plan as to where Bush is on the field. Someone has to spy him no matter what. This is why he can lineup in the slot, outside, or in the backfield. This is why they can fake double reverses and screens to him, because everyone runs to where he is. He breaks open games. Did you watch the Giants game where he actually got 20 carries? He went off for 126 yards and a touchdown.

"We don't have to line Washington up in the slot." Stupid statement. If he had the god-given talent that Bush had, THEN THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD LINE HIM UP THERE. Because this would cause defenses fits. You can preach about yards per carry all you want, that doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Bush has 88 FRIGGIN CATCHES FOR A REASON. If Washington had the abilities that Bush did, they would throw to him 100 times, but he doesnt. Washington is a quick, shifty back who is EXCELLENT at making catches out of the backfield and throwing some quick jukes on defenders. But please, don't say he's better than Bush. Bush brings so much more to the table. Bush is a better FOOTBALL PLAYER at this point in their careers. Who knows what will happen from this point on.

Saying "they could, but they don't" is a useless argument. Because if they could, THEY WOULD. If they could, it would open up the offense so much more. I love Leon. I show him "some damn love." But I don't view him while wearing some peachy, green-colored goggles. I think he'll be awesome as a complement to Thomas Jones, being able to screw with defenses since he's such a different runner than Jones.

It's called realism. Does that make me less of a fan that you? Maybe by your crazy definition.

QUOTE (gmany3k @ Mar 15 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I felt the same way about the Bush hype before he even stepped on the field.
I am not much of a stats guy but at the end of the season I think I saw that bush didn't make the top 20 in any catorgory as an RB.I felt the same way about Ricky williams when he came out of college. Ricky won't have any records in the NfL when he calls it a day.


Ricky Williams is a much different case who cannot be placed side-by-side with normal human beings. That man is a f'ed up individual, one whose mind cannot be explained by mere homo-sapiens. If he was normal, he would have put up insane numbers by the time his career came to an end.
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#28 User is offline   gmany3k Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:55 PM

Just a feeling here Bush does'nt break the nfl rushing record and probably would not get to 10th.
I think he will get a serious injury and never be the same , just a feeling.
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#29 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 10:00 PM

QUOTE (gmany3k @ Mar 15 2007, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a feeling here Bush does'nt break the nfl rushing record and probably would not get to 10th.
I think he will get a serious injury and never be the same , just a feeling.


No one is saying he is going to break the NFL rushing record! That's not the player he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you saying Leon will get closer to that milestone than Bush? I don't get it. Stay on topic.
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#30 User is offline   VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs Icon

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 15 2007, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No one is saying he is going to break the NFL rushing record! That's not the player he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you saying Leon will get closer to that milestone than Bush? I don't get it. Stay on topic.

That's the point. No one was predicting that he would break the rushing record when he came into the league. People thought he would be a guy that could carry the ball 10-15 times and get 5-10 catches a game, which is exactly what he did in his ROOKIE YEAR. He will get better running the ball, but he's never gonna get you 2000 yards on the ground. Give him a couple years and he will be a 1000 yard rusher and receiver though. To say Leon is better than Bush is just ludacris.
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#31 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 01:20 AM

Well that's your opinion, because if we gave Leon Washington 60 million dollars and 30 million guaranteed I think we'd throw him the ball in the slot. That's not what the Jets ask him to do but to say Leon can't line up and play WR as a football player is ignorant of the details anyway because we don't have the ability to see him do it or not do it.

The Jets don't use him that way because he's Leon. And I don't view him with greeny goggles either. And I sure as hell don't just accept Bush as a great player either. I'm talking production and production where it counts. Leon plays RB and he has a better receiving average. Look at the stats. He's a better running back and he can catch the ball just as well as Reggie Bush. I dont get how Bush "catches" the ball better than Leon. They both make the catch. It's what you do with it when you got it and Leon has done the same shit Reggie has done and then some because Leon can atleast run from the backfield.

One has hype, the other has zero hype even amongst the home fans. Their production is the same except Leon is a better runner. He doesn't see that many catches because the offense doesn't revolve around Leon like it does Bush. The doesn't mean he's not equally as good as a football player or as physically gifted. And I don't give a shit if it's ludacris or stupid because I take it at face value. Drama aside it is what it is. That's what I'm saying.
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#32 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 16 2007, 06:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well that's your opinion, because if we gave Leon Washington 60 million dollars and 30 million guaranteed I think we'd throw him the ball in the slot. That's not what the Jets ask him to do but to say Leon can't line up and play WR as a football player is ignorant of the details anyway because we don't have the ability to see him do it or not do it.

The Jets don't use him that way because he's Leon. And I don't view him with greeny goggles either. And I sure as hell don't just accept Bush as a great player either. I'm talking production and production where it counts. Leon plays RB and he has a better receiving average. Look at the stats. He's a better running back and he can catch the ball just as well as Reggie Bush. I dont get how Bush "catches" the ball better than Leon. They both make the catch. It's what you do with it when you got it and Leon has done the same shit Reggie has done and then some because Leon can atleast run from the backfield.

One has hype, the other has zero hype even amongst the home fans. Their production is the same except Leon is a better runner. He doesn't see that many catches because the offense doesn't revolve around Leon like it does Bush. The doesn't mean he's not equally as good as a football player or as physically gifted. And I don't give a shit if it's ludacris or stupid because I take it at face value. Drama aside it is what it is. That's what I'm saying.


Leon has a better receiving average because he caught something like a quarter of the balls Reggie Bush caught over the course of a year which has an effect as the more you catch, the more your receiving average generally drops slightly. Plus teams didn't focus as much on Leon as they would have done for Bush and that's a fact. Some of it is the hype surrounding Bush meaning teams gameplan for him more but he is more of a versatile threat than Leon is.
The fact is what beanz said - about if Leon had the ability that Bush has to play in the slot then he would do it because Mangini and Schottenheimer love to play to their player's strengths. He is a good catcher of the ball but if he was a decent slot receiver as well they would have put him there considering the type of wide open, multiple look offense we ran.
Both had very good rookie seasons and Leon came out of nowhere to be honest whereas Bush was expected to have the impact he had. That's the main difference between the two players but I don't see Washington having as productive career as Bush as Washington isn't going to be the starter here for the next couple of years considering Jones just got brought in whereas Bush and McAllister will continue to share carries in an almost 50:50 ratio.
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#33 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 11:47 AM

I've seen Leon shift out of the backfield into the slot during the season. It's stupid to say Leon couldn't play the slot as a WR because he's a RB. Reggie Bush playing the slot as a WR is using Reggie Bush's strengths in getting him a mismatch because he's pretty horrible running out of the backfield.

I dont care if Reggie Bush has more physical talent, where he was selected in the draft and the money he's getting paid equals an offense being built around him. The Jets dont do that with Leon, not because he doesn't have the ability, but because they don't ask him to do that and he's not the focus of the offense. I'd rather have Brad Smith in the slot than Leon anyway.

I'm saying Reggie Bush had a dissapointing season compared to the hype. Leon had a great season when Mangini gave him the ball. I'd rather have Leon than Reggie, Reggie Bush is over rated. Just because the coach says, "Throw the pass to Reggie" about 10 times a game doesn't make him better. It means he gets the ball more. I'm sure Leon could catch 10 passes a game if Schotty wanted to do that. I'm sure he'd have a whole lot more TDs too.
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#34 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 16 2007, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen Leon shift out of the backfield into the slot during the season. It's stupid to say Leon couldn't play the slot as a WR because he's a RB. Reggie Bush playing the slot as a WR is using Reggie Bush's strengths in getting him a mismatch because he's pretty horrible running out of the backfield.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm done trying to argue this. You're hopeless.
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#35 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 16 2007, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm done trying to argue this. You're hopeless.


I'm not sure what you're laughing at but 3.6 ypc sucks. If you weren't dissapointed with Reggie Bush as a pure RB then you're the one that's hopeless. I can't see how you can't comprehend the numbers.... I'm glad you're done with it.
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#36 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 16 2007, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well that's your opinion, because if we gave Leon Washington 60 million dollars and 30 million guaranteed I think we'd throw him the ball in the slot. That's not what the Jets ask him to do but to say Leon can't line up and play WR as a football player is ignorant of the details anyway because we don't have the ability to see him do it or not do it.

The Jets don't use him that way because he's Leon. And I don't view him with greeny goggles either. And I sure as hell don't just accept Bush as a great player either. I'm talking production and production where it counts. Leon plays RB and he has a better receiving average. Look at the stats. He's a better running back and he can catch the ball just as well as Reggie Bush. I dont get how Bush "catches" the ball better than Leon. They both make the catch. It's what you do with it when you got it and Leon has done the same shit Reggie has done and then some because Leon can atleast run from the backfield.

One has hype, the other has zero hype even amongst the home fans. Their production is the same except Leon is a better runner. He doesn't see that many catches because the offense doesn't revolve around Leon like it does Bush. The doesn't mean he's not equally as good as a football player or as physically gifted. And I don't give a shit if it's ludacris or stupid because I take it at face value. Drama aside it is what it is. That's what I'm saying.



Reggie Bush is put into the slot because he can catch just as good as wide recievers and can make moves that are way better than Wr's once he has the ball.

You think because the jets aren't paying leon that much is the reason they don't line him up at wr? They don't ask him to line up in the slot because he's not as good as a wr. That's the reason why bush gets that kind of money, because he can do it all.

If leon could catch and produce as well as reggie bush, why wouldn't u ask him to do it? You're saying he does but the numbers are the same because he hasn't caught nearly as many ball as busch. plus when leon comes out of the backfield he catches the ball against linebackers, while busch has cb's lining up across from him. so it makes him even more dangerous.


QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 16 2007, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen Leon shift out of the backfield into the slot during the season. It's stupid to say Leon couldn't play the slot as a WR because he's a RB. Reggie Bush playing the slot as a WR is using Reggie Bush's strengths in getting him a mismatch because he's pretty horrible running out of the backfield.

I dont care if Reggie Bush has more physical talent, where he was selected in the draft and the money he's getting paid equals an offense being built around him. The Jets dont do that with Leon, not because he doesn't have the ability, but because they don't ask him to do that and he's not the focus of the offense. I'd rather have Brad Smith in the slot than Leon anyway.



what u said about brad smith is exactly true. the jets would rather have brad smith in the slot also, but if the jets had Reggie bush, they would rather have him in the slot. that's the point.
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#37 User is offline   beanz Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 05:25 PM

QUOTE (triple3s @ Mar 16 2007, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Reggie Bush is put into the slot because he can catch just as good as wide recievers and can make moves that are way better than Wr's once he has the ball.

You think because the jets aren't paying leon that much is the reason they don't line him up at wr? They don't ask him to line up in the slot because he's not as good as a wr. That's the reason why bush gets that kind of money, because he can do it all.

If leon could catch and produce as well as reggie bush, why wouldn't u ask him to do it? You're saying he does but the numbers are the same because he hasn't caught nearly as many ball as busch. plus when leon comes out of the backfield he catches the ball against linebackers, while busch has cb's lining up across from him. so it makes him even more dangerous.
what u said about brad smith is exactly true. the jets would rather have brad smith in the slot also, but if the jets had Reggie bush, they would rather have him in the slot. that's the point.


clapping.gif

very well said. But don't worry, he'll be sure to come back with some stats for you. Because as we know, "the stats don't lie." blowup.gif
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#38 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 08:44 PM

QUOTE (beanz @ Mar 16 2007, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
clapping.gif

very well said. But don't worry, he'll be sure to come back with some stats for you. Because as we know, "the stats don't lie." blowup.gif


people don't realize that bush is a serious threat, because, if the saints come out in I formation and you come out with 3 linebackers, you can throw bush in motion and use him against a linebacker.

If you come out in nickel, then you can have an easier time running the ball. people do not have to do that for leon, regardless of what people think.
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#39 User is offline   jets0n Icon

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 09:48 AM

Fair enough. I still think Leon is equally as talented as a football player and a better running back.
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#40 User is offline   triple3s Icon

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE (jets0n @ Mar 17 2007, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fair enough. I still think Leon is equally as talented as a football player and a better running back.


so you basically think leon is better than reggie bush? i'm just want to know for the record.
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