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What Tomlin Did That Mangini Didn't

#1 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Post icon  Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE
t's a start that coaches greet with cautious optimism, and praise for Tomlin's lack of action. Many coaches take head coaching jobs and install familiar schemes, fire coaches they view as a threat to their vision, and reshape rosters with their own brand of players. Instead, Tomlin tried a more patient approach. One season removed from a Super Bowl win, he stayed true to the scheme by retaining several key components of the coaching staff. The centerpiece was LeBeau, who is widely considered one of the NFL's best defensive minds and who has spent nearly as many years coaching in the NFL (34) as Tomlin has spent on planet Earth (35)

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#2 User is offline   theanalogkid Icon

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:50 PM

If Mangini was the HC of the Steelers he'd probably have kept LeBeau too.
...no hero in your tradgey, no daring in your escape, no salutes to your surrender, nothing noble in your fate....Rush, The Pass.

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#3 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (theanalogkid @ Oct 18 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Mangini was the HC of the Steelers he'd probably have kept LeBeau too.


Yea I don't think the question is whether to keep Lebeau because he's the best DC in the game. However Mangini did this team an injustice by getting rid of certain players. Sowell, Mawae and Kendall so not only does this statement reflect coaches it does the same for players as well.
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#4 User is offline   theanalogkid Icon

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:02 PM

Getting rid of Mawae was no big deal considering the transition to Mangold was seamless. Both he and Sowell were both heavily involved with the union and would be giving Mangini a hard time trying to get this team in shape. Beisdes both were over 30 and both are likely to retire within a season or two.
...no hero in your tradgey, no daring in your escape, no salutes to your surrender, nothing noble in your fate....Rush, The Pass.

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#5 User is offline   Jetsfan0099 Icon

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:15 PM

Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..
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#6 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..


Really hit the nail on the head there.
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#7 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:47 AM

Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys
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#8 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys


And what makes you think that? He has had the Steelers playing well this year, something Cowher struggled at times to do last year. Cowher wasn't helped with Big Ben's preseason exploits but then again, he was healthy come a couple of weeks into the season.
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#9 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Oct 19 2007, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And what makes you think that? He has had the Steelers playing well this year, something Cowher struggled at times to do last year. Cowher wasn't helped with Big Ben's preseason exploits but then again, he was healthy come a couple of weeks into the season.




Cowher won a superbowl. These are Cowher's players not Tomlin. When Herman Edwards came here he took over Parcells players for those many years he took us to the playoffs. Herman never finished better than 10-6 in his carrer. He Struggles to make the playoffs every year one way or the other.


Untill this is Tomlin's team he is overrated and not worth my time to talk about
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#10 User is offline   HarlemHxC814 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tomlin is overrated. He is the next Herman Edwards dont buy into that crap guys


Ok, I'll believe you instead
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#11 User is offline   Kirby JUICE Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Key word they were one season removed from the SUPERBOWL! That means they had a more set team and arent looking to rebuild but more to sustain success. Mangini came to a team that went 4-12 and a year removed from divison game. And plus we had a lot of player released. I dont blame Mangini for wanting to go to the 3-4, it takes time to learn this defense, so I rather do it now and have success later when we have the talent then wait till we have the talent and then have to learn the defense and schemes then have to wait till the teams knows the system. Plus it doesnt hurt being crappy right now with the pats seeming like the best team ever. So atleast we are down when we really dont have a shot anyway..


I didn't blame last Mangini for installing the 3-4... With teams transitioning to the two-headed running attack and putting more emphasis on the ground game, I think it's a good call.

I still don't blame him 100% for not getting all of the personnel, because it's a big transition. He got a good MLB in David Harris and a good 3-4 end in Kenyon Coleman.

However, the biggest and most obvious weakness is a lack of NT. Mangini insists this undersized, explosive NT idea is effective... meanwhile D-rob gets raped all game long. The Jets could also use another good pass rusher (Terrell Suggs??), but if Mangini doesn't do anything about the NT problem in the offseason, THEN I will blame him.
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#12 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 02:00 PM

Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.



Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.


The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.
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#13 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.
Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.
The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.


huh.gif
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#14 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 05:05 PM

QUOTE (HurricaneJet32 @ Oct 19 2007, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
huh.gif



WTF.gif we both can do that
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#15 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WTF.gif we both can do that

ninja.gif
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#16 User is offline   JIG-SAW Icon

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 19 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mangini is a better coach than Tomlin bottom line. Dont let Cowher's team fool you guys. Tomlin is doing a nice job being a player's coach which Herman was. When you players that are used to the system you can't break them when its working for you.



Before the Jets got rid of Herman the Cover 2 bullshit was not working for the Jets. Pittsburg's 3-4 was one of the reasons they have not aloud a rusher over 100 yards for 35 or 50 straight games. You dont get ride of something that works for the team.


The Jets had many reasons to get rid of the Cover 2 Defense because it was not working.




what are you talking about??? In 2004 we finished 7th in total defense and 2005 we still finished 12th despite injuries and an offense who couldnt keep the defense off the fuking field..I'd say it was working just fine



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#17 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE (JIG-SAW @ Oct 20 2007, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what are you talking about??? In 2004 we finished 7th in total defense and 2005 we still finished 12th despite injuries and an offense who couldnt keep the defense off the fuking field..I'd say it was working just fine






So you are going to base your thoughts on one year against shitty teams we played in 05? Even USF could stop those offenses we played in 05. and again thats only one year that worked out. Pittsburg had the same defense forever man
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#18 User is offline   ozjet51 Icon

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:00 AM

i read nfl.com in the "The 10 storylines to watch for in Week 7" by pat kirwan that the steelers have not let up a 100 yard rusher since 2005, i think that just about says everything about the difference between pittsburgh and nyj
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#19 User is offline   Vilma#51 Icon

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:05 AM

QUOTE (ozjet51 @ Oct 20 2007, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i read nfl.com in the "The 10 storylines to watch for in Week 7" by pat kirwan that the steelers have not let up a 100 yard rusher since 2005, i think that just about says everything about the difference between pittsburgh and nyj




Thank you!


Again you dont give up whats working for you. Tomlin is working with his players like Herman tryed to do when he got here. It took him awhile to change this defense into a cover 2. You can't base one year of being ranked #7 the cover 2 being a better defense than the 3-4. There was a reason why we changed our defense and personal because it was NOT CLEARY WORKING. we were last against the run and top rank passing defense because we were getting runed over for 150 yards a game.
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#20 User is offline   JIG-SAW Icon

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 01:20 AM

QUOTE (Vilma#51 @ Oct 20 2007, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you are going to base your thoughts on one year against shitty teams we played in 05? Even USF could stop those offenses we played in 05. and again thats only one year that worked out. Pittsburg had the same defense forever man


i didnt know the 2004 and 2005 seasons constitued as 1 year...I see your point with the steelers Defense but saying the Cover-2 wasnt working is wrong and Donnie Henderson did a Helluva job turning this defense around he shouldnt of been let go for Sutton's sorry ass



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