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:: Official Kellen Clemens Vs. Chad Pennington Debate :: All New Topics Will Be Merged to This Thread!

#1 User is offline   brwct8 Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:08 PM

I have a close friend who works in the Media and he tell me from what he sees and hears from most is that Clemens will lose the starting job to Chad. He said that he would be shocked if Chad wasnt starting when all is said and done. these are the reasons:
He" just doesnt have the pocket presence".
Too much happy feet.
Takes too long to get rid of the ball and is very indecisive.

Dont kill the mesenger all you Clemens boosters.

Just thought I would pass this along.
May the slamming begin.
lol
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#2 User is offline   oracle401 Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:27 PM

No messanger killing here, brwct8. biggrin.gif
Quite frankly Clemens will probably look like garbage and get the starting job from Pennington come the middle of the season, and then Jets fans will say how much they want Pennington back. He was an overrated pic.
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#3 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:05 PM

As all of these media guys have been saying Chad and Clemens played neck and neck in OTA's. If Clemens is where Chad is at OTA's then I'm content. However it's too hard to judge a Q.B without a pass rush and without pads on. Real 7 on 7 and reall 11-11 drills is what I'll be waiting for.

Clemens has too much ability. The scramble and arm strength are all added plus's.

All of the problems stated was an assessment of Clemens last year. Lets not make a final judgment until training camp.
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#4 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (S-Dubb @ Jun 25 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As all of these media guys have been saying Chad and Clemens played neck and neck in OTA's. If Clemens is where Chad is at OTA's then I'm content. However it's too hard to judge a Q.B without a pass rush and without pads on. Real 7 on 7 and reall 11-11 drills is what I'll be waiting for.

Clemens has too much ability. The scramble and arm strength are all added plus's.

All of the problems stated was an assessment of Clemens last year. Lets not make a final judgment until training camp.


He has too much ability, and his arm strength is an 'added' plus? Thats all he has is arm strength.
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#5 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (Jetsman05 @ Jun 25 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He has too much ability, and his arm strength is an 'added' plus? Thats all he has is arm strength.


*sigh*

I guess his elusiveness and scramble ability to make plays on run which he did a lot last year aren't abilities in your book.
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#6 User is offline   VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 05:46 PM

I have a hard time believing that one member of the media has information that seems to have eluded every beat writer out there. When I read 5 articles saying Chad and Clemens showcased equal abilities in OTAs, I believe them. I'm not calling you a liar, but if your buddy is a member of the media and has information that has never been published, why wouldn't he write about it? Not saying no one has ever criticized Clemens pocket presence, but if it was that much of a problem in mini-camp, why haven't articles been written about it?
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Posted 25 June 2008 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE (VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs @ Jun 25 2008, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hard time believing that one member of the media has information that seems to have eluded every beat writer out there. When I read 5 articles saying Chad and Clemens showcased equal abilities in OTAs, I believe them. I'm not calling you a liar, but if your buddy is a member of the media and has information that has never been published, why wouldn't he write about it? Not saying no one has ever criticized Clemens pocket presence, but if it was that much of a problem in mini-camp, why haven't articles been written about it?



Vandelay... you must not be a conspiracy theorist... that is a very level headed realist perspective. I tend to agree with you on these points. But I gotta say I'm sick of this Clemens has no presense non-sense. Of course he doesnt he hasn't played!!! Peyton Manning got pwned his first few years, but then he settled in. There are countless other examples. Yes some guys naturally have it, but it CAN be learned. The main thing you have to consider with the Chad vs Kellen debate is this: the short-sighted, win-now, solution is Chad; the forward-thinking, (smarter in my opinion) risk-losing-this-year solution is Kellen. I don't think they Jets are trying to ONLY win-now. They want to win now, later, and always. So look for Clemens to win this job.
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#8 User is offline   VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs Icon

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 07:54 PM

I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Chad is the win-now choice. He was awful last year, AWFUL. Clemens was the better QB in the games he played. Not the better prospect, the better QB. Maybe Chad is a guy that needs a good offensive line to succeed, but it was truly painful watching him play last year. I hope the best guy wins and dear god i hope that guy is kellen...
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Posted 25 June 2008 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (ManginiIsMyFather @ Jun 25 2008, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vandelay... you must not be a conspiracy theorist... that is a very level headed realist perspective. I tend to agree with you on these points. But I gotta say I'm sick of this Clemens has no presense non-sense. Of course he doesnt he hasn't played!!! Peyton Manning got pwned his first few years, but then he settled in. There are countless other examples. Yes some guys naturally have it, but it CAN be learned. The main thing you have to consider with the Chad vs Kellen debate is this: the short-sighted, win-now, solution is Chad; the forward-thinking, (smarter in my opinion) risk-losing-this-year solution is Kellen. I don't think they Jets are trying to ONLY win-now. They want to win now, later, and always. So look for Clemens to win this job.

I think that there is a real chance that the 2009 starter is not currently on the team. I know it sucks as all other pieces seem to be in place except #2 CB. We just have been so unlucky on getting the right guy in the draft. We just missed out on Favre and the decision of Peyton Manning not to come out and be #1 overall by us and then go the next year to a team in our division. Why can't the jets get a guy like Brady. Lets all hope that Clemens does pan out because as much as I like Chad, he will Never lead us beyond wild card status.
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:16 AM

QUOTE (VaNDelaYInDusTrIEs @ Jun 25 2008, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hard time believing that one member of the media has information that seems to have eluded every beat writer out there. When I read 5 articles saying Chad and Clemens showcased equal abilities in OTAs, I believe them. I'm not calling you a liar, but if your buddy is a member of the media and has information that has never been published, why wouldn't he write about it? Not saying no one has ever criticized Clemens pocket presence, but if it was that much of a problem in mini-camp, why haven't articles been written about it?


I never said he was a writer. He could work for SNY or MSG maybe... Everyone will believe what they want to.
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#11 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE (brwct8 @ Jun 26 2008, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I never said he was a writer. He could work for SNY or MSG maybe... Everyone will believe what they want to.


Why not reveal who it is then?
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#12 User is offline   Jetsfan0099 Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 09:07 AM

Those reasons are well known about Clemens, those were his problems the last 2 years with the Jets. But Clemens also brings more to the game that Chad does, I really don't believe Chad can bring us to a SB ever. Chad can not beat a top tier defense, it is well proven, when ever we play a top tier defense we always had struggled even moving the ball with Chad. At least with Clemens we were able to move the ball and he gave us a chance to win.
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#13 User is offline   FlyHiJets Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 11:56 AM

QUOTE (brwct8 @ Jun 26 2008, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I never said he was a writer. He could work for SNY or MSG maybe... Everyone will believe what they want to.


Ok. Let me be the wisea$s in all this and ask if the "media" guy is a paperboy? That would still be considered a media person as they could also be considered media personnel.

Seriously though. This person is complaining that Clemens has no pocket presence? Who would have any pocket presence when they're not used used to even having a pocket around them? If the O-line made a pocket last year, then it had one hell of a hole at the bottom of it because defenders were just walking through it last year as if it were made of thin air.

Maybe I'm wearing green colored sunglasses or something because everything I've read is in direct contradiction to this media person's statement. If he works behind the scenes at SNY or MSG, then maybe there's a reason why he's the guy that goes to get the real sportscasters coffee or something because he obviously doesnt know what he's talking about when it comes to football "abilities".

Clemens definitely has flaws, but if he's on par with Pennington with everything in the OTA's then how can it be said that Chad is automatically going to win the starting job? Because the media person sees all of the signings to bolster the O-line & running game which in turn will set up play action for Chad? I guess they're counting on the corners & everyone to be playing to the inside & closer to the line so they can't come from behind the receivers to intercept those rainbows?
I will not be forgotten. This is my time to shine. I've got the scars to prove it. Only the strong survive.

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#14 User is offline   nysackexchange Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:10 PM

Peyton and Eli both STILL have happy feet, and get it done. It's not ideal but it's not a kiss of death either.
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#15 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (FlyHiJets @ Jun 26 2008, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok. Let me be the wisea$s in all this and ask if the "media" guy is a paperboy? That would still be considered a media person as they could also be considered media personnel.

Seriously though. This person is complaining that Clemens has no pocket presence? Who would have any pocket presence when they're not used used to even having a pocket around them? If the O-line made a pocket last year, then it had one hell of a hole at the bottom of it because defenders were just walking through it last year as if it were made of thin air.

Maybe I'm wearing green colored sunglasses or something because everything I've read is in direct contradiction to this media person's statement. If he works behind the scenes at SNY or MSG, then maybe there's a reason why he's the guy that goes to get the real sportscasters coffee or something because he obviously doesnt know what he's talking about when it comes to football "abilities".

Clemens definitely has flaws, but if he's on par with Pennington with everything in the OTA's then how can it be said that Chad is automatically going to win the starting job? Because the media person sees all of the signings to bolster the O-line & running game which in turn will set up play action for Chad? I guess they're counting on the corners & everyone to be playing to the inside & closer to the line so they can't come from behind the receivers to intercept those rainbows?


Is this forum not capable of actually having an arguement without throwing shots at someone? Everything you say is completely dulled by calling this guy out and saying that his friend who happens to be part of the media is an 'idiot'.

From S-Dubb to you, from the top to the bottom. This forum has problems with it. Argue your case don't start throwing low blows at people, its getting old.
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Jetsman05 @ Jun 26 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this forum not capable of actually having an arguement without throwing shots at someone? Everything you say is completely dulled by calling this guy out and saying that his friend who happens to be part of the media is an 'idiot'.

From S-Dubb to you, from the top to the bottom. This forum has problems with it. Argue your case don't start throwing low blows at people, its getting old.


Ok 05............do me a favor & PLEASE tell me where I took a personal shot at brw?

I didn't take a shot at anyone other than the media source. So.....please (and I'm being very polite here), follow your own advise & make an intelligent post without having to throw shots by accusing people of doing the same. Also......where did I call the guy an idiot? I just said he's more likely to be the guy that runs to get coffee than he is to be an actual sports analyst.

Your post is entirely contradictory to itself when you go back & actually read my original post & yours isn't it?

And btw.......this isn't a shot at you personally because I don't know you from Adam, but if you don't like this forum or the people from the top to the bottom, then get the hell out & go to some ragtag second rate Jets board. One of the great qualities of this site is that everyone CAN actually post their opinion without having to worry about retribution from mods, etc so long as the responses are kept clean & so long as there are no personal attacks.
I will not be forgotten. This is my time to shine. I've got the scars to prove it. Only the strong survive.

When someone annoys u, it takes 42 muscles in ur face 2 frown. BUT, it only takes 4 muscles 2 extend ur arm & b!tch-slap that mother@*?!&! upside the head!!
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#17 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:33 PM

Well heres a solution. Considering this is a message and there isn't no serious personal attacks... who cares!!!

Who wants it to all warm and fuzzy in here all the time? .. not me. Friendly jawing every now and then is what gives forums character. People have to learn to relax and stop getting emotional. The guy who made this thread knew he was going to recieve some bantering as would I if I posted something about "my source" having "inside information".

Just read peoples post for what they are. If it's a 300 word post and out of those 300 words theirs an "idiot" in there, don't worry. This is a forum from football not the powderpuff girls. Learn to take things in stride.
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:50 PM

I don't want everything to be sobby in here but its getting to the point where half of the posts when someone disagrees has to toss in the "dumbass" or "idiot" terms. If you ask me you lose all credibility to argue any point if you have to use something like that. You have nothing in counter to their arguements. Which is the truth the past 30 times I've seen people calling names and shit.
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 02:42 PM

Tear...
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan0099 @ Jun 26 2008, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really don't believe Chad can bring us to a SB ever. Chad can not beat a top tier defense, it is well proven, when ever we play a top tier defense we always had struggled even moving the ball with Chad.


WHEN and WHERE is it proven that Chad cannot beat a top tier defense, and can somebody please show me the proof? Because I sure hope you are not talking about 2007, in which both QB's sucked, and Joe Namath and Joe Montana and anybody else would've sucked too because you can't win when three out your five offensive lineman are non-functional.

If 2006 is what you are talking about, then it is true that the Jets won five of their last six games against mediocre teams to march into the playoff. But consider this: Chad had Kevan somebody behind him for a runner, and his line consisted of the same crew as 2007 only with the addition of Pete Kendall. Kendall is a good-but-not-great lineman, and if the only difference in the 2006 OL and the 2007 OL is Kendall, then just how great could the 2006 line actually be?

Ever think of that?

Probably not.

Chad lifted the 2006 team into the playoffs, despite his arm not being fully healed yet, by sheer force of talent, leadership and intelligence. He most always made the right play when it mattered, and the Jets stole several games that they probably should have lost.

What the hell has Kellen proven, other than when the team is in total collapse, he can arguably look a bit better than Chad can when the team is in total collapse? You're going to hand the future of the team over to a guy on the basis of that?

Kellen should get the job when he shows he deserves it. And not one game before.
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