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:: Official Kellen Clemens Vs. Chad Pennington Debate :: All New Topics Will Be Merged to This Thread!

#161 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (Amen @ Jul 7 2008, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd like to bold and highlight another consistency.


Because Chad has control over the play call!!
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#162 User is offline   Amen Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:29 PM

But he can take responsibility for his lack of accuracy and inability to remedy the type of passes that were consistently picked off! It's crazy, Jetsman. I know you like Chad, but can you not see it? Is that type of play really justifiable?

It's not about Clemens right now. So don't look at this as a Clemens supporter swaying the facts with horse-blinders on. But how many times can a QB make the same mistake in one season before you finally admit that he just might not be as good as he used to be? We all hated Testaverde after his interceptions became predictable! Dubb posted three specific games, times, and scenarios where Chad did the same thing to the same result, and you want to believe he's still good enough?
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#163 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (Amen @ Jul 7 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But he can take responsibility for his lack of accuracy and inability to remedy the type of passes that were consistently picked off! It's crazy, Jetsman. I know you like Chad, but can you not see it? Is that type of play really justifiable?

It's not about Clemens right now. So don't look at this as a Clemens supporter swaying the facts with horse-blinders on. But how many times can a QB make the same mistake in one season before you finally admit that he just might not be as good as he used to be? We all hated Testaverde after his interceptions became predictable! Dubb posted three specific games, times, and scenarios where Chad did the same thing to the same result, and you want to believe he's still good enough?


He had a horrible season, I'm not, and have not ever disagreed. The fact of the matter is, hes the best option we have.
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#164 User is offline   Amen Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:43 PM

If that's true, that's fine. Maybe his predictable passes in clutch situations is forgivable in your eyes, and that justifies your preference for him over Clemens. But that's not my question. For the sake of closure here, let's say Kellen really does suck. But given Pennington's type of play, do you believe he's still a quality starter in this league?
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#165 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (Amen @ Jul 7 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If that's true, that's fine. Maybe his predictable passes in clutch situations is forgivable in your eyes, and that justifies your preference for him over Clemens. But that's not my question. For the sake of closure here, let's say Kellen really does suck. But given Pennington's type of play, do you believe he's still a quality starter in this league?


A quality starter? I think both Chad and Kellen both serve as quality starters, I like Chad's experience and knowledge on the field. I'm not saying Kellen sucks, I just don't think now is his time. Had we not made moves to win now, I'd be in favor of turning it over to Kellen.
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#166 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (Jetsman05 @ Jul 7 2008, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A quality starter? I think both Chad and Kellen both serve as quality starters, I like Chad's experience and knowledge on the field. I'm not saying Kellen sucks, I just don't think now is his time. Had we not made moves to win now, I'd be in favor of turning it over to Kellen.


I don't think a team - whatever moves they made - can be win now if they don't know who their starter is going into training camp.
And I don't think there is a win now mentality; Woody's stated that Mangini will stay beyond this season as head coach plus not every hole was plugged.
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#167 User is offline   Swissle Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Jul 7 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think a team - whatever moves they made - can be win now if they don't know who their starter is going into training camp.
And I don't think there is a win now mentality; Woody's stated that Mangini will stay beyond this season as head coach plus not every hole was plugged.



at least they've built a solid defense. young and fast. nice.




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#168 User is offline   gmany3k Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 03:00 PM

Its kind of funny mentioning Chad and Vinny having the same weakness " throwing Int to short outs "
see Vinny still has a stronger arm than Chad . but they have one thing in common they played in the west coast offense that the Jets have been using since after parcells left.Hacket Hermdinger and now shotty there in lies the problem .
21ST CENTURY NEW YORK STATE OF MIND ."REST IN PEACE NIGHT OWL TOM"Use Caution when reading my comments>.Posted Image
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#169 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 03:18 PM

QUOTE (Swissle @ Jul 7 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
at least they've built a solid defense. young and fast. nice.


I agree that major upgrades have been made, but I wouldn't rate us as a upper echelon team based solely on those moves.
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#170 User is offline   Swissle Icon

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:40 PM

QUOTE (Smedsthejet @ Jul 7 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that major upgrades have been made, but I wouldn't rate us as a upper echelon team based solely on those moves.



na i wouldn't say that either. but regardless, the Defense is solid, and pretty young. in essence, that could lay a nice foundation to draft offense next year and pick-up some dynamic gamebreakers, QB included, if Clemens can't come into his own.




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Posted 08 July 2008 - 04:54 PM

Okay I can't believe I'm about to write this, but I actually think the Jets should start Chad heading into the season and see what happens. The reason why I say this is the last time Chad had a controversy he played his best season ever and with our line and potential for a legit running game and Chad's ability to play ball control we may have a shot to make the playoffs if he can manage games for us.

Plus I like Clemens coming off the bench with a chip on his shoulder. I just don't want to see a revolving door and if it looks like Chad and Kellen both stink I want to see Ainge and I want to see him early because that will put us in the best position to get a high pick next year and see what we have.
This team gives me gray hairs, but I love them none the less.
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#172 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:03 PM

http://nyjetsfan.com...showtopic=23970

Just read this thread^^^

You could have just stated your opinion in there. Here comes another LONG drawn out thread of the same B.S. I'm probably better off just merging this thread. What you guys think.
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#173 User is offline   LeonhardSkynyrd36 Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:26 PM

better off deleting it in my opinion
ColesReturns87
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#174 User is offline   Holmes10 Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:32 PM

QUOTE (ColesReturns87 @ Jul 8 2008, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
better off deleting it in my opinion

If you delete it another one will pop up...not a bad idea though.

How about merging it...and finally locking it?
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#175 User is offline   blk_orion Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 06:07 PM

iagree.gif Merge it already.
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#176 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 06:26 PM

Oh yeah I make my presence felt on this one as well....


Lock this shit up so I don't get sucked in drinks.gif
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#177 User is offline   Holmes10 Icon

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE (Jetsman05 @ Jul 8 2008, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh yeah I make my presence felt on this one as well....
Lock this shit up so I don't get sucked in drinks.gif
You are the main culprit in this sorry ass thread Jetsman...a willing participant rtfm.gif

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:04 PM

LOCKED!!! biggrin.gif

Your all welcome

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Post icon  Posted 16 July 2008 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE
What use is a strong arm if this is a recurring theme?:


What about the quarterback competition? Mangini didn't give away much there, although I couldn't help but notice that Kellen Clemens missed a wide-open receiver in a minicamp practice. Explaining a defensive breakdown on a "bunch" formation, Mangini noted how the defense left a receiver all alone in the middle of the field, about 12 yards from the QB. Clemens apparently didn't see him and threw somewhere else for an incompletion. He also showed a bunch of clips where Chad Pennington alertly spotted an uncovered receiver at the line of scrimmage, called a quick-snap and fired quickly to him. That's called "Smoke," in case you're wondering. I don't think Mangini was making a statement about his quarterbacks, but I found it interesting.

-Cimini
Reply With Quote


Chad has 10 times the vision to find open receivers than Clemens does, that is evident when you watch them play and that alone should trump the whole arm argument. That is why Chad completes 68% at 10 a pop while Clemens completes at 52% with 12 a pop, give me the 10 at 68% any day of the week. I don't get fooled by the flash like some of you do, give me consistency over flash any day and twice on sundays.


---------------------------

Clears throat

Lets not turn this into a Chads got a noddle arm and Kellen has a cannon debate. We already know this.

Now.. Cimini's logic is alittle skewed. I'm shocked that a man that covers the Jets FOR A LIVING isn't all that analytical. Mr Cimini... why does Chad throw a higher completion percentage?.. BECAUUUUUSE, Chad is a dink and dunk perfectionist. Clemens comp percentage would increase if he settled hitting 3 and 4 yard completions for a 3 an a half-hour game too. Sure Kellens % won't look as good on paper. I'm surprised Cimini is this "wet behind the ears".

From Cimini:
QUOTE
I don't get fooled by the flash like some of you do, give me consistency over flash any day and twice on sundays.


Really?.. do we need to venture down this road again?, I'll take the guy who mans up in the 4th Q with the game on the line. I'll take a guy that opposing defense respect and don't cloud the box on which in turn will allow us to run better, I'll take a guy that has some mobility and can make plays on the run any day and twice on Sundays.




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#180 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 11:52 PM

QUOTE (S-Dubb @ Jul 17 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
---------------------------

Clears throat

Lets not turn this into a Chads got a noddle arm and Kellen has a cannon debate. We already know this.

Now.. Cimini's logic is alittle skewed. I'm shocked that a man that covers the Jets FOR A LIVING isn't all that analytical. Mr Cimini... why does Chad throw a higher completion percentage?.. BECAUUUUUSE, Chad is a dink and dunk perfectionist. Clemens comp percentage would increase if he settled hitting 3 and 4 yard completions for a 3 an a half-hour game too. Sure Kellens % won't look as good on paper. I'm surprised Cimini is this "wet behind the ears".


From Cimini:


Really?.. do we need to venture down this road again?, I'll take the guy who mans up in the 4th Q with the game on the line. I'll take a guy that opposing defense respect and don't cloud the box on which in turn will allow us to run better, I'll take a guy that has some mobility and can make plays on the run any day and twice on Sundays.





Ok I don't want to fight but your logic that Chad has a higher completetion percentage because he takes 5 yard passes, and Clemens doesn't is actually a KNOCK ON CLEMENS. You can't always go deep to the covered reciever.. His article is dead on accurate.

That being said, if Clemens is this poor in camp at reading the middle, and coverage. Chad will cake walk this competition.
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