[azjetfan]

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Gov. Rick Snyder on Tuesday signed into law a stricter, four-year lifetime limit on cash welfare benefits, prompting advocates for the poor to warn that tens of thousands of residents will find themselves without cash assistance on Oct. 1.

Michigan's first-year Republican chief executive said the state will offer exemptions to the limit for those with a disability who can't work, those who care for a disabled spouse or child and those who are 65 or older and don't qualify for Social Security benefits or receive very low benefits.

Some recipients who are the victims of domestic violence also may be temporarily exempted.

"We are returning cash assistance to its original intent as a transitional program to help families while they work toward self-sufficiency," Snyder said in a statement. He noted that the state still will help the poor by offering food stamps, health care coverage through Medicaid, child care and emergency services.

Then-Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat, signed a bill that created a four-year limit starting in 2007. But that law exempted many welfare recipients, including those whose caseworkers said they were making progress toward finding employment.

The 2010 election of Snyder and the simultaneous Republican takeover of the Michigan House gave the GOP a free hand to set its own course on public assistance.

The change gives Michigan the Midwest's toughest welfare time limit, according to a survey by The Detroit News. It said there are five-year limits in Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. Indiana has a two-year limit for adults — but none for children.

Gilda Jacobs of the Michigan League for Human Services said she expects about 41,000 people to lose their cash assistance payments on Oct. 1 when the state's new budget year begins. That includes 29,700 children, according to the Michigan Department of Human Services.

"We're very, very concerned," Jacobs said. "As the days go by, new people will be meeting the 48-month limit. ... More will be falling off that cliff."

The new law will reduce the number of children and adults receiving cash assistance by nearly a fifth, from more than 221,000 to around 180,000. Enforcing a four-year limit will save the state more than $60 million annually, according to a House Fiscal Agency analysis.

Jacobs said it's hard to see how 11,000 adults will find a job when Michigan's July unemployment rate was 10.9 percent, tied with South Carolina for third-highest in the nation.

"We still have to preserve a safety net for people who, through no fault of their own, can't find a job," she said, noting that most cash assistance goes to help poor residents pay their rent. "There's obviously a lot of anxiety out there. Folks aren't sure exactly what this means to them."

State officials say they're working with nonprofit organizations to direct welfare recipients to other services and provide a "soft landing" as they lose benefits. Recipients will be connected with other resources, given housing and job placement assistance for up to three months beyond October and mentored by trained job navigators.

"Michigan continues to face financial challenges, and the fiscal reality is that we cannot afford to provide lifetime cash assistance to recipients who are able to work," Health and Human Services director Maura Corrigan said in a statement. "Enforcing lifetime limits for cash assistance ensures that available funds are targeted toward those recipients who need a helping hand while they find employment."

Michigan ranked 38th in child poverty for 2009, defined as income below $21,756 for a family of two adults and two children. About 23 percent of Michigan's children lived in poverty in 2009, compared with 20 percent nationally. In 2000, only 14 percent of Michigan children lived in poverty. The average age of a child in a family receiving cash assistance is around 7 years old.

Snyder, a Republican, has said reducing the number of children living in poverty is a priority of his administration.

The Michigan Catholic Conference has objected to the four-year limit. The conference said the effect will be felt for years by society and by children who lose services.

[SecondHandJets]

It sounds great on paper, but this isn't the economy to try that shit in. More people will be pushed to desperation in a state where there's tons of strife already. Crime is going to sky rocket.

[azjetfan]

SecondHandJets, on 07 September 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

It sounds great on paper, but this isn't the economy to try that shit in. More people will be pushed to desperation in a state where there's tons of strife already. Crime is going to sky rocket.

What you are saying is true but where is the $ coming from? The state is broke. They cut Schools Law enforcement ect.... People need to stop relying on the goverment for long term support.

[SecondHandJets]

azjetfan, on 07 September 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

What you are saying is true but where is the $ coming from? The state is broke. They cut Schools Law enforcement ect.... People need to stop relying on the goverment for long term support.

Everywhere is broke, doesn't mean that sweeping cuts are the correct way to mitigate this. You're disenfranchising the already marginalized members of society. Yes, some of them are going to get jobs, but where? People who want jobs can't even find any right now. What about those with no training, education and experience? They're gonna f*** around and turn Detroit in the the next Watts.

[azjetfan]

SecondHandJets, on 07 September 2011 - 10:21 PM, said:

Everywhere is broke, doesn't mean that sweeping cuts are the correct way to mitigate this. You're disenfranchising the already marginalized members of society. Yes, some of them are going to get jobs, but where? People who want jobs can't even find any right now. What about those with no training, education and experience? They're gonna f*** around and turn Detroit in the the next Watts.

This is not unemployment, its people who have been collecting Welfare for more than 4 years. 4 Years is a long time.

[gmany3k]

The Rothschild are worth 300 trillion dollars and they and others like them are the cause , eliminate them and terminate the elitists before they bankrupt us all. remember there really isn't a state there is only the prison planet.

[santana]

Haha i was just talking about this with some friends.

I remember learning that welfare was a tool used to keep the bottom rung of society in check.

Aka the US needs welfare or else like SHJ says those in desperate need will turn Detroit into watts

[S-Dubb]

It's a great idea. Crime might rise a bit but it will scare a lot of people to get their sh*t together.

[azjetfan]

Some people trully need the help. Thats OK. But the systen is abused. If you cant get it together in 4 years then you may need to get a different plan.

[azjetfan]

By the way I thought MR. Jet would be all over this. Where you at?

[Mr_Jet]

S-Dubb, on 08 September 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

It's a great idea. Crime might rise a bit but it will scare a lot of people to get their sh*t together.

Yeah they need to get their shit together. Because there is no reason why these freeloaders need government assistance in the first place when they're always hiring at McDonald's.




SecondHand is right. People in this situation aren't going to "get there shit together." And why should they when it feels like to them that every time they get one step ahead in life people like Rick Snyder (who have no idea what it is like to live paycheck to paycheack) knock them two steps back. So yeah they'll turn to crime and I don't blame them. I think that you guys who live in or close to big cities like NYC really don't understand how hard it is for somebody who doesn't live near a big metropolis to find work in this economy. You guys are talking about Detroit but not everybody who lives in Michigan lives in or near Detroit. What about the people that live in St. Joseph, Manistee, Jackson, Alpena? What about people who live in the Upper Peninsula? What about the people in the even smaller towns that had one factory/company that pretty much employed the entire town for generations until those jobs were shipped down to Mexico or overseas. Not only that but in some cases they'll twist the knife even harder by making you train the person who's going to take your job. Then when these people try to go back to school to try to learn a new skill (a.k.a. get their shit together) people like Snyder and Republicans in D.C. want to cut funding for financial aid programs so they can balance the budget on the backs of those who are trying to get their shit together while cutting taxes for him and his rich friends at the same time. Again one step ahead then slapped two steps back.

Yes there is waste and fraud in the gov't assistance programs, always have been and despite this law there will continue to be. But the fraud at the bottom is nowhere near as impactful to the budget as those at the top of the economic ladder who cheat the system. People in the middle class worry and complain so much about big Bertha the welfare queen at the bottom cheating the system but when people at the top like Bernie Madoff and Ken Ley (to use two notable examples who after years were eventually caught) do it, the same amount anger doesn't seem to rise out of the average American...unless you were directly impacted by their lying and stealing. Where was this anger last year when the bank reform bill was watered down almost to the point that it wasn't even worth signing the bill into law because the law has no real teeth in it? But no let's continue to vilify and demonize those on government assistance. Years ago millions of people who thought they'd never be on gov't assistance and may have even said in the past something like "those people need to get off the gov't teet and get a job" ended up losing their jobs and draining their savings to the point that now they are on "the gov't's teet" themselves and longer than they expected to be. All because finding a job that pays a living wage is next to impossible these days. So nobody should think for a moment "it could never happen to me."



One of my favorite quotes.

"I want to take care of my neighbor - red, brown, black, yellow, any race - I want to do it in self-defense. I love my neighbor and I want him to have sufficient income, in self-defense, because if he doesn't have some income, guess whose income he's coming for? If my neighbor doesn't have health care, guess who's going to get sick? If my neighbor doesn't have an appreciation for education, guess whose schools are going to be ruined? If my neighbor doesn't have a house, guess whose house he'll break into? If my neighbor doesn't have justice, guess who's going to feel the weight of his anger and hostility and violence?"
-Rev. Walter Fauntroy

[SecondHandJets]

I'm as red as the next guy but this looks like one of those policies that are going to be studied in schools as an example of unintended consequence. You're taking the bottom rung of society and trying to show them tough love in the worst economic climate in recent memory. If I were living in Michigan, I'd short crystal meth... cause labs are about to start popping up on every block.

[azjetfan]

Mr_Jet, on 08 September 2011 - 03:19 PM, said:

Yeah they need to get their shit together. Because there is no reason why these freeloaders need government assistance in the first place when they're always hiring at McDonald's.

There you are in all your glory. So you are saying a person should take handouts instead of supporting themselves working at McDonalds? A person with ethics will take a job over welfare anyday.

[azjetfan]

SecondHandJets, on 08 September 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

I'm as red as the next guy but this looks like one of those policies that are going to be studied in schools as an example of unintended consequence. You're taking the bottom rung of society and trying to show them tough love in the worst economic climate in recent memory. If I were living in Michigan, I'd short crystal meth... cause labs are about to start popping up on every block.

The short term you have a point, but four years is a loooooonnnnngggggg time. More than fair.

[Mr_Jet]

azjetfan, on 08 September 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

There you are in all your glory. So you are saying a person should take handouts instead of supporting themselves working at McDonalds? A person with ethics will take a job over welfare anyday.

Well wasn't this your goal? I mean I really doubt you regularly pay attention to the goings on in the Michigan legislature all the way from Arizona.

But I tell you what. Since a family can support themselves just by flipping burgers at McDonald's why don't you quit your job tomorrow and move up to Michigan and start working at McDonald's? Then in a few months when you're freezing your ass off (and the winters are a bitch up here) because the heat was cut off in the shitty apartment you live in which has an eviction notice on the door, you can tell me how ethical you are for not taking any handouts. You know since Mickey D's pays their new employees so much. And that's all IF they hire you full time which is highly unlikely.


Those jobs are only suited for teenagers who still live with their parents and need money to buy a used car, save for college, or help their parents out with the bills.

[azjetfan]

Mr_Jet, on 08 September 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

Well wasn't this your goal? I mean I really doubt you regularly pay attention to the goings on in the Michigan legislature all the way from Arizona.

But I tell you what. Since a family can support themselves just by flipping burgers at McDonald's why don't you quit your job tomorrow and move up to Michigan and start working at McDonald's? Then in a few months when you're freezing your ass off (and the winters are a bitch up here) because the heat was cut off in the shitty apartment you live in which has an eviction notice on the door, you can tell me how ethical you are for not taking any handouts. You know since Mickey D's pays their new employees so much. And that's all IF they hire you full time which is highly unlikely.


Those jobs are only suited for teenagers who still live with their parents and need money to buy a used car, save for college, or help their parents out with the bills.

Actually I live in WI now. I do travel to MI IL on a regular basis. In respnse to your other comment. If I cannot suport my family working how can I on Welfare? Makes no sense. By working I can show what I can do and network and be givin chances I would not get sitting on my ass at home eating Bon Bons. If I was unemployed I would rather work.

[SecondHandJets]

azjetfan, on 08 September 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

The short term you have a point, but four years is a loooooonnnnngggggg time. More than fair.

It sounds great on paper but I just don't see it. People take a very hardline with welfare recipients because they're deemed leeches... which some of them are. I'm not going to sit here and debate the plight of the poor. My point is simple: I know ghetto ass people. I know how they think. I know their mentality. They're not going to say "Okay dude, it was a good run and now we gotta go get jobs". No. They're not gracious like that. They're poor, they tend to blame their problems on their environment and they're not upwardly mobile. When the welfare checks stop, they're going to be even poorer, they will have legitimate gripes with their environment and they will begin to look for alternative means of income. It just so happens that this legislature was enacted in a state that's been declining in every major economic category for about a decade now so I'm very skeptical that the Michigan economy will be able to provide jobs to these folks because as the article says, they can't even employ 10% of the people who are actively searching for work.

[azjetfan]

SecondHandJets, on 08 September 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

It sounds great on paper but I just don't see it. People take a very hardline with welfare recipients because they're deemed leeches... which some of them are. I'm not going to sit here and debate the plight of the poor. My point is simple: I know ghetto ass people. I know how they think. I know their mentality. They're not going to say "Okay dude, it was a good run and now we gotta go get jobs". No. They're not gracious like that. They're poor, they tend to blame their problems on their environment and they're not upwardly mobile. When the welfare checks stop, they're going to be even poorer, they will have legitimate gripes with their environment and they will begin to look for alternative means of income. It just so happens that this legislature was enacted in a state that's been declining in every major economic category for about a decade now so I'm very skeptical that the Michigan economy will be able to provide jobs to these folks because as the article says, they can't even employ 10% of the people who are actively searching for work.

There are stipulations within the bill. From what I have read alotof people will continue to get money beyond the four years. The purpose is to get the "Lifers" that do not need it off the nipple.

[Mr_Jet]

azjetfan, on 08 September 2011 - 11:10 PM, said:

Actually I live in WI now. I do travel to MI IL on a regular basis. In respnse to your other comment. If I cannot suport my family working how can I on Welfare? Makes no sense. By working I can show what I can do and network and be givin chances I would not get sitting on my ass at home eating Bon Bons. If I was unemployed I would rather work.

I just want to know when you're going to move over here and work at McDonald's. I mean to see how you're going to make it working part time at $7.50 an hour without using any gov't assistance is going to be very interesting. I've never seen somebody use their ethics to pay their bills and use their moral fiber card at the checkout lane at the supermarket. And you're going to have to do a hell of a lot of networking to move up to a management position at McDonald's in just one month before the bills are do again. See what you're talking about showing what you can do and networking, that takes time. You can't do that in less than a month. But the rent will be do every month, you got to eat everyday. Your landlord and your stomach aren't going to give you the amount of time you will need to "network" to earn more before they get what they want. You're not going to be able pay your bills with ethics in October, you're going to need money. And working part time at McDonald's isn't going to be enough.

[azjetfan]

Mr_Jet, on 09 September 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

I just want to know when you're going to move over here and work at McDonald's. I mean to see how you're going to make it working part time at $7.50 an hour without using any gov't assistance is going to be very interesting. I've never seen somebody use their ethics to pay their bills and use their moral fiber card at the checkout lane at the supermarket. And you're going to have to do a hell of a lot of networking to move up to a management position at McDonald's in just one month before the bills are do again. See what you're talking about showing what you can do and networking, that takes time. You can't do that in less than a month. But the rent will be do every month, you got to eat everyday. Your landlord and your stomach aren't going to give you the amount of time you will need to "network" to earn more before they get what they want. You're not going to be able pay your bills with ethics in October, you're going to need money. And working part time at McDonald's isn't going to be enough.

I take it your on welfare? You are very defensive. If I loose my job and my only option is Mcdonalds or Welfare I am taking McDonalds. I would rather work 100 hours a week than take welfare. If you want me to quit my job to prove this to you dont hold your breath.