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California Allows College Aid To Illegal Immigrants

#21 User is offline   HarlemHxC814 Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 02:44 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

If you have an ITIN you are not Illegal. The purpose of an ITIN is to be able to work in the states. These people are going through the proper channels. I have no beef with them. http://www.irs.gov/i...duals/article/0,,id=222209,00.html


Not true. ITIN's are issued regardless of immigration status


http://www.nytimes.c...numbers&st=cse#

Quote

With the tax deadline approaching, illegal immigrants are sending in federal returns in what appear to be record numbers despite fears heightened by recent immigration raids around the country.

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#22 User is offline   HarlemHxC814 Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 02:49 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

I have no beef with them.


Those with ITIN's all over the country will sleep soundly tonight
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#23 User is offline   azjetfan Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 02:52 PM

View PostMr_Jet, on 12 October 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

Illegal immigrants pay taxes, too
(USA TODAY, April 10th 2008)
The Associated Press

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a worker's immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won't risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many taxpayers are in that situation.

"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.

But some illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers.

"It's a mistake to think that no illegal immigrants pay taxes. They definitely do," said Martha Pantoja, who has been helping Hispanic immigrants this tax season as an IRS-certified volunteer tax preparer for the nonprofit Nashville Wealth Building Coalition.

Among those she has assisted is Eric Jimenez, a self-employed handyman who has worked in Nashville for several years. He feels obliged to pay taxes - even though, as Pantoja said, "nothing would happen" to him if he did not.

"I have an idea, a mentality, that to be a good citizen you have to pay taxes," he said. "Also, I'm conscious of the fact that the money we pay in taxes supports the schools and all the public services."

Pantoja said she has helped a number of construction workers who, because they are classified as independent contractors by their employers and have no taxes withheld, owe big tax bills come April. Beyond income tax, they have to pay the full Social Security and Medicare taxes due.

The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.

Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100 percent, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.

Nine billion dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is only about 1.5 percent of the total $593 billion paid into Social Security in 2005.

The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers.

Federal law prohibits paying Social Security to illegal immigrants, but the administration factors in both legal and illegal immigration when projecting the trust fund's long-term solvency.

This is especially important as the 78 million-member baby boom generation begins to leave the work force and draw Social Security checks.

"Overall, any type of immigration is a net positive to Social Security. The more people working and paying into the system, the better," Hinkle said. "It does help the system remain solvent."

The Social Security Administration drew from census and Immigration and Customs Enforcement data in 2007 to project the effects of higher and lower immigration patterns.

If net immigration is high at 1.3 million people a year, the SSA's combined trust fund would be exhausted in 2043. But the fund runs out four years earlier if annual net immigration amounts to about half that - 472,500 legal immigrants and 250,000 illegal immigrants.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't have an estimate of how many illegal immigrants pay income tax.

But one indicator is the 9 million W-2 forms with mismatched names and Social Security numbers it received in 2004. The IRS said the W-2 forms with invalid Social Security numbers reported about $53 billion in wages and about three-fourths of that, $40 billion in wages, had taxes withheld.

The IRS also has been issuing Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers, or ITINs, for 12 years to foreigners without a Social Security number. It's believed that many workers who seek the ITINs are in the country illegally, and the IRS reported that there were 2.5 million tax returns filed with an ITIN in 2004.

In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003."

An IRS spokesman said more recent figures aren't available.

The Social Security and Medicare taxes from mismatched W2s for the same period was $41.4 billion, Hinkle said.

That adds up to roughly $90 billion in federal taxes during they eight-year period.

The IRS defends the ITIN system, despite criticism that some illegal immigrants have used it to open bank accounts, get mortgages and establish a record of residency and taxpaying they hope might someday lead to legal status.

"The ITIN program is bringing taxpayers into the system," Everson told Congress.

Middle Tennessee State University economics professor William Ford, who has studied taxes and immigration, says a majority of economists agree that illegal immigrants are a net benefit for the U.S. economy.

He said the tax contributions from illegal immigrants, including sales taxes, property taxes and excise taxes (such as the gas tax), are significant.

He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. That number assumes illegal immigrants are 30 percent less productive than other workers.

"If anything we need more immigrants coming into the country, not less, especially with the baby boomers retiring," he said.


That article opens up so many cans of worms from Using others SS#, Companys not verifying employees, Jobs taken away from citizens ect.... Also its someones estimate. If these jobs were held by the 9% unemployed and 20% underemployed we would still have the tax income and have less unemployement claims and less tax money wasted. Not to mention why not give the college money to kids from broken homes or living in poverty? This whole mindset just seems like a way for a politition to get more votes. It makes no financial sense in a depression
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 02:54 PM

View PostHarlemHxC814, on 12 October 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

Not true. ITIN's are issued regardless of immigration status


http://www.nytimes.c...numbers&st=cse#

I will trust the IRS website befor the daily news. They may not be citizens but they can work and are going about things the right way.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 03:23 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

I will trust the IRS website befor the daily news. They may not be citizens but they can work and are going about things the right way.


If I posted an article from the Daily News then you would be onto something, grasshopper
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#26 User is offline   FlyHiJets Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 03:48 PM

View PostMr_Jet, on 10 October 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

Yes please let's shoot illegal immigrants in the head even if they are 20somethings that were brought to the U.S. illegally when they were small children. It doesn't matter if they've lived here for almost their entire lives. It doesn't matter that they speak English as their first language and have assimilated into American culture. It doesn't matter if they're willing to serve the U.S. in order to become U.S. citizens. No they're criminals and therefore deserve to to me shot in the head. USA!!! USA!!!! USA!!! ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!




Yes let's shoot those criminals Maricela and Jose in the head! God bless America.

I wonder how many of you guys can pass the U.S. citizenship test? I've studied U.S. history extensively and even I didn't get all those questions right.



Damn right let's shoot them in the head. You don't think they were asked for a SSN when they applied for college and had us citizens pay their way? They knew then that they were illegal but didn't do a damn thing to become legal or get even a student visa. How many years of college did they receive at our expense? If I have to bust my ass to pay for my & my children's education while we're citizens, why in the hell should some criminal scum get a free ride? If they're here illegally & I find out, I would be the one to put a bullet in their head and not think twice about it. As far as I'm concerned they're enemy combatants that have invaded this country. I'm sorry if that upsets some people but I'm sick and tired of this politcially correct BULLSHIT that gives some scumbag more rights than we have when they're here illegally.

As for the citizenship test.....somebody tried coming at me with that bullshit one before and I passed it. I know for a fact its not easy to become a citizen, but it doesnt mean for people to just come illegally & steal from me. Work hard for it and come here the right way or don't come at all. That's like saying that I like a new Camaro or a new truck. Can I just go steal it because it's too hard for me to get financing to buy it? Having to get rides or take a bus or a train is an undue harship on me. They claim living in their home country is a hardhsip so I guess I can claim hardship too.
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#27 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 06:21 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

So you went through the proper avenues to be legal. How hard was it? Why can't we require everyone to do it?


It is EXTREMELY difficult. The entire process to immigrate to the US took about 3 years for my parents. I was very young when they started the process by filling out the applications. Then we had to travel to the US embassy (located in a different city) for an interview. The interview was pretty interesting. I didn't speak any English at the time and it was the first time I heard someone speak my native tongue with a foreign accent. Then we had to wait for results. It took 2 days and neither of my parents were able to sleep. Once we got the refugee status, we had to file a whole new set of paperwork, etc.

Keep this in mind: I don't come from a 3rd world country. In Mexico, the process I described is pretty much non existent. If you live in a country with a high degree of corruption, just to get your hands on the application and get it processed will take your life savings.

Think of it this way: people sail here in homemade boats. They cross deserts by foot and risk getting robbed, raped and killed. They transport themselves in shipping containers. Do you think they would do that if they had other means of coming here?
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#28 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 06:24 PM

View PostFlyHiJets, on 12 October 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

Damn right let's shoot them in the head. You don't think they were asked for a SSN when they applied for college and had us citizens pay their way? They knew then that they were illegal but didn't do a damn thing to become legal or get even a student visa. How many years of college did they receive at our expense? If I have to bust my ass to pay for my & my children's education while we're citizens, why in the hell should some criminal scum get a free ride? If they're here illegally & I find out, I would be the one to put a bullet in their head and not think twice about it. As far as I'm concerned they're enemy combatants that have invaded this country. I'm sorry if that upsets some people but I'm sick and tired of this politcially correct BULLSHIT that gives some scumbag more rights than we have when they're here illegally.

As for the citizenship test.....somebody tried coming at me with that bullshit one before and I passed it. I know for a fact its not easy to become a citizen, but it doesnt mean for people to just come illegally & steal from me. Work hard for it and come here the right way or don't come at all. That's like saying that I like a new Camaro or a new truck. Can I just go steal it because it's too hard for me to get financing to buy it? Having to get rides or take a bus or a train is an undue harship on me. They claim living in their home country is a hardhsip so I guess I can claim hardship too.


I love how Americans have this form of entitlement. The only reason you're legal is because your ancestors did the same shit the Mexicans did, but they did it a while ago. The illegal immigrants aren't stealing from you. In fact, they're doing you a favor. If they weren't picking strawberries for $4/hour in California or chopping meat for $3/hour in Alabama your grocery bill would be double.
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#29 User is offline   azjetfan Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 07:40 PM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 12 October 2011 - 06:21 PM, said:

It is EXTREMELY difficult. The entire process to immigrate to the US took about 3 years for my parents. I was very young when they started the process by filling out the applications. Then we had to travel to the US embassy (located in a different city) for an interview. The interview was pretty interesting. I didn't speak any English at the time and it was the first time I heard someone speak my native tongue with a foreign accent. Then we had to wait for results. It took 2 days and neither of my parents were able to sleep. Once we got the refugee status, we had to file a whole new set of paperwork, etc.

Keep this in mind: I don't come from a 3rd world country. In Mexico, the process I described is pretty much non existent. If you live in a country with a high degree of corruption, just to get your hands on the application and get it processed will take your life savings.

Think of it this way: people sail here in homemade boats. They cross deserts by foot and risk getting robbed, raped and killed. They transport themselves in shipping containers. Do you think they would do that if they had other means of coming here?


Let me make myself 100% clear. I have no issue with people coming to America from other countries to better themselves. I have a problem with people coming here without going through the proper channels. You did it correctly. I am sure you worked before you were a citizen and thats great. Its about having people do the right thing. Sneaking across a border using someone elses ITIN SS# or whatever is wrong and should not be rewarded.
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#30 User is offline   azjetfan Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

View PostHarlemHxC814, on 12 October 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:



If I posted an article from the Daily News then you would be onto something, grasshopper


Easy sparky dont get your panties in a bunch. It does not matter what media outlet you prefer Fox, CNN ABC MSNBC. Its still wrong. Media is not trustworthy. You can't take what they say as fact. They are out to make money just like the rest of us.
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#31 User is offline   azjetfan Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 07:46 PM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 12 October 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

I love how Americans have this form of entitlement. The only reason you're legal is because your ancestors did the same shit the Mexicans did, but they did it a while ago. The illegal immigrants aren't stealing from you. In fact, they're doing you a favor. If they weren't picking strawberries for $4/hour in California or chopping meat for $3/hour in Alabama your grocery bill would be double.


Yes you are correct. I am here because of my grandparents. The difference is they did it the right way. I can go to EllisIsland.org and see the paperwork. Again no problem with peeps coming here. Just has to be the right way.
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#32 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:03 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

Let me make myself 100% clear. I have no issue with people coming to America from other countries to better themselves. I have a problem with people coming here without going through the proper channels. You did it correctly. I am sure you worked before you were a citizen and thats great. Its about having people do the right thing. Sneaking across a border using someone elses ITIN SS# or whatever is wrong and should not be rewarded.


I came here when I was 8 and I was citizened when I was 13.

You do not understand that it is impossible for most people from 3rd world countries to come here "through the proper channels". Unless you're a potential victim of genocide or you have enough money to buy asylum, you are pretty much out of options. People seeking to move to America just to be able to have a better living have no choice but to come here without papers. They're not criminals looking for a short cut. Most have to work twice as hard as legal immigrants. Most are exploited, and they agree to it because being exploited in America is still better than living where they are.
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#33 User is offline   HarlemHxC814 Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

Tonights South Park nailed this situation perfectly
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#34 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:20 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

That article opens up so many cans of worms from Using others SS#, Companys not verifying employees, Jobs taken away from citizens ect.... Also its someones estimate. If these jobs were held by the 9% unemployed and 20% underemployed we would still have the tax income and have less unemployement claims and less tax money wasted. Not to mention why not give the college money to kids from broken homes or living in poverty? This whole mindset just seems like a way for a politition to get more votes. It makes no financial sense in a depression



I told you they pay taxes too. I like how when you don't like what someone tells you and they bring you facts you just dismiss them because you don't like what they say. So those are just "someones estimate." Prove them wrong then. Bring something to the table to prove this economist and the Social Security Administration are wrong. Now do you even know how much illegal immigrants make? There is a reason why the 9% of unemployed aren't hired by people who are exploiting/employing illegal immigrants. Because the 9% expect a certain things like safe working conditions and a minimum wage. Certain basic standards we have in this country. Certain basic standards that keep us from going back to the 1890s. And again that 9% includes older people who might not be physically fit enough to do that kind of back breaking work. That 9% also includes young people fresh out of college who have a large amount debt because of their student loans. These people didn't spend 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars to pick oranges for 12 hours a day. The kind of work illegal immigrants do is not easy and IMO it's just slightly above slavery. Which says a lot about countries like Mexico.

Is it a way for a politician to get more votes, maybe. This might be why Karl Rove and George W. Bush wanted the kind of immigration reform that some other Republicans called amnesty. Rove and Bush knew that Republicans alienating and vilifying the fastest growing voting block in America would not be good for the Republican party in the long run. Illegal immigrants may not be able to vote but they do have family and friends who are citizens who can. Like I said I hope the Republicans continue to piss off Latinos. Maybe one day we'll be able could turn Texas's electoral votes blue.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:46 PM

View PostFlyHiJets, on 12 October 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

Damn right let's shoot them in the head. You don't think they were asked for a SSN when they applied for college and had us citizens pay their way? They knew then that they were illegal but didn't do a damn thing to become legal or get even a student visa. How many years of college did they receive at our expense? If I have to bust my ass to pay for my & my children's education while we're citizens, why in the hell should some criminal scum get a free ride? If they're here illegally & I find out, I would be the one to put a bullet in their head and not think twice about it. As far as I'm concerned they're enemy combatants that have invaded this country. I'm sorry if that upsets some people but I'm sick and tired of this politcially correct BULLSHIT that gives some scumbag more rights than we have when they're here illegally.

As for the citizenship test.....somebody tried coming at me with that bullshit one before and I passed it. I know for a fact its not easy to become a citizen, but it doesnt mean for people to just come illegally & steal from me. Work hard for it and come here the right way or don't come at all. That's like saying that I like a new Camaro or a new truck. Can I just go steal it because it's too hard for me to get financing to buy it? Having to get rides or take a bus or a train is an undue harship on me. They claim living in their home country is a hardhsip so I guess I can claim hardship too.




And that post right there is proof that the last thing this country should be doing is laying off teachers. SMH. This kind of statement makes me think people who are naturally born here should have to renew their citizenship every few years like we do our driver licenses. Since it's so easy you know.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:29 PM

View PostMr_Jet, on 12 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

I told you they pay taxes too.


So you are saying if the illegals did not work those jobs no one would? I would think with the unemployment @ 9% and underemployment @ 18% we could fill those jobs and still collect taxes. Not to mention the unemployment we are paying. Huge savings. You can believe the media all you want. In case you have not figured it out yet they love the liberals because they sell. The media makes money off these types of issues. Go ahead and believe everyword they say if you like.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:31 PM

View PostHarlemHxC814, on 12 October 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

Tonights South Park nailed this situation perfectly


Its great that you base your opinions off of cartoons.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:31 PM

View Postazjetfan, on 12 October 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Easy sparky dont get your panties in a bunch. It does not matter what media outlet you prefer Fox, CNN ABC MSNBC. Its still wrong. Media is not trustworthy. You can't take what they say as fact. They are out to make money just like the rest of us.


Reuters is out to make money too and that's where you got this story from. I guess they are wrong too and this story about California allowing college financial aid to illegal immigrants can't be trusted either. Because they're out to make money too. Just because a news outlet is corporately owned doesn't make them untrustworthy. Biased maybe, but not necessarily untrustworthy.
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View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:35 PM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 12 October 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

I came here when I was 8 and I was citizened when I was 13.

You do not understand that it is impossible for most people from 3rd world countries to come here "through the proper channels". Unless you're a potential victim of genocide or you have enough money to buy asylum, you are pretty much out of options. People seeking to move to America just to be able to have a better living have no choice but to come here without papers. They're not criminals looking for a short cut. Most have to work twice as hard as legal immigrants. Most are exploited, and they agree to it because being exploited in America is still better than living where they are.

I understand the situation. I lived in Tucson for 10 years. Went to Nogalas and rocky point 3-4 times a year. I have seen the poverty. I just dont think you can break laws and policies just because you are in a tough place. The laws are in place for a reason. They were not just pulled out of someones ass. I guess you guys think we should have no borders?If not where do you draw the line?
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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:40 PM

View PostMr_Jet, on 12 October 2011 - 11:31 PM, said:

Reuters is out to make money too and that's where you got this story from. I guess they are wrong too and this story about California allowing college financial aid to illegal immigrants can't be trusted either. Because they're out to make money too. Just because a news outlet is corporately owned doesn't make them untrustworthy. Biased maybe, but not necessarily untrustworthy.


Do you think the media is 100% honest? Do you think they report stories in a way that make people read them so they can make money? They are all untrusworthy as fact.
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