[azjetfan]

FlyHiJets, on 15 October 2011 - 02:30 AM, said:

SHJ.....you misunderstand my position. I've said it REPEATEDLY that I am NOT against foreigners coming to the US for an education. I am merely stating that they should have to do it the right way.

That is a point we have both made and they seem to blow off. If its to hard to come to this country we need to reform it. Come legally or dont come at all. This is why I have bowed out of this thread.

[FlyHiJets]

azjetfan, on 15 October 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

That is a point we have both made and they seem to blow off. If its to hard to come to this country we need to reform it. Come legally or dont come at all. This is why I have bowed out of this thread.

I think I need to follow your lead Az. Apparently some concepts are just too difficult for some people to understand and nothing we say or do will ever enlighten them. It's just sad when we as American taxpaying citizens get told we seem to have some sort of feeling of entitlement when it comes to our own money but yet we're the ones that get nothing for our money and then get told that while we're not entitled to have say in where our tax dollars go, but the illegals have every bit of entitlement to our money. I guess our families aren't entitled to the same luxuries afforded to the illegals. God forbid they actually have to file a FREE application to come to this country legally for an education.

[Mr_Jet]

FlyHiJets, on 15 October 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

Okay......I was REALLY trying to keep this as somewhat civilized debate between us but you're either too lazy to read, too stubborn to actually see someone else's point of view or you're just plain stupid.

Let me repeat YET AGAIN......I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH ANYONE COMING HERE FOR AN EDUCATION. As long as they do it legally. How f***ing hard is it to adhere to a lousy 3.....let me repeat so you get it through those cinder blocks you have inside your head.....THREE requirements to get a student visa? I don't want to kill immigrants. Only criminals that are stealing from my wife and children. You can f*** with me personally as much as you want but when you start affecting my family, I really don't give a shit who you are.....criminal illegal alien, a cop, lawyer, judge or President f***ing Obama himself.......I will make you suffer. Death would be welcomed by the time I'd be done. And no.....I'm not trying to act tough or brag about my accomplishments. I know my accomplishments & I'll tell you something else.....I did everything on my own and WORKED for it and EARNED everything I have. I never had to steal from others to get what I wanted in life.

Well first I guess I'll start by debunking this it's easy to get a student visa nonsense.

Quote

Bhaskar Chitraju came to the United States from India at the age of 13, and has never been back, living legally in the U.S. for the past 10 years. In Southgate, Mich., he played soccer, excelled at Quiz Bowl, and indulged in Battlestar Galactica marathons with his buddies. High school was easy for him, he remembers, because people accepted him for who he was.

However, the aspiring business owner is as far from American citizenship as the day he stepped off the plane. And two years ago, a clock started ticking down on the only life he knows.

His father, a computer programmer, applied for a green card as soon as he could file the paperwork. Bhaskar would have benefited from that petition, but at 21, he was hit by a provision called “aging out” — a consequence of a visa processing backlog that affects thousands of aspiring Americans a year. He continues to live in the United States on a student visa, but Bhaskar may be legally obligated to leave after he graduates from business school next year.

“I feel frustrated and helpless most of the time,” said Bhaskar, who insists he is determined to play by the rules,. “There’s so much uncertainty in my life — I don’t know if I’ll be here next year or not.”

Reform for the Younger Generation
As green card backlogs delay or derail their chances for citizenship, people like Bhaskar are pinning their hopes on a controversial piece of legislation that was meant to address the quandaries of illegal — not legal — immigrants. The DREAM Act, or Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors, is a federal bill that would provide immigrant youth who enroll in college or serve in the military an expedited path to citizenship. It would also make it easier for states to offer undocumented immigrants in-state tuition at public colleges and universities.

The prospect of legalization for undocumented aliens, even a small portion of them, stirs passions on all sides of the immigration debate. Opponents say the DREAM Act amounts to amnesty for lawbreakers, while proponents stress it would benefit only those who entered the U.S. before age 16, have lived here for at least five years and have a clean criminal record. Versions of the bill foundered in the Senate four times since 2001, but bipartisan support may favor supporters this time around. In March, senators Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Richard Lugar, R-Ind., reintroduced the bill in the Senate, while Howard Berman, D-Calif., and Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., introduced a similar version in the House.

If it were to pass, the DREAM Act would immediately make 360,000 undocumented high school graduates ages 18 to 24 eligible for legal residency, according to the Migration Policy Institute.

Bhaskar hopes the DREAM Act will help him, too, even though he has never been undocumented. “I would be so happy,” he says. “I could work to pay my tuition. Most of my problems would be solved.”

After 9/11, immigrants faced increased security restrictions, severe backlogs in processing visas and an increasingly histrionic debate over immigration. Young immigrants — the documented battling new barriers to permanent residency, the undocumented in fear of deportation — quickly flocked to the DREAM Act. Its supporters, many of them undocumented, lobbied politicians, organized marches and spoke to the media, often at the risk of exposing their status.

In online discussion forums, so-called “legal DREAMies” draw parallels between documented and undocumented kids who were brought to the United States at a young age. Jason, a naturalized American from Barbados, is a frequent poster on dreamact.info, an activist site. Having experienced the immigration system both as an undocumented teen and a green card petitioner, he believes both groups deserve an expedited path to citizenship. “You can’t go ahead in life always looking over your shoulder,” he said. “The DREAM Act should be a comprehensive immigration reform for the younger generation.”

Legal immigrants say they need the DREAM Act because the current system punishes people who try to play by the rules. Every year, tens of thousands of skilled foreign workers, from geneticists to nurses to engineers, enter the United States on work visas. Many return to their home countries, but others decide to settle here. Last year 166,511 foreign workers and their family members received green cards, but many more remained in limbo between temporary status and permanent residency.

One such green card hopeful is Ganesh, an Indian computer consultant who came to the United States with his wife and son seven years ago. His visa, the H1-B, allows him to apply for a family green card through his employer, a process he expected would take two to three years. His son is now 19 and a student at the University of Michigan. “No one can differentiate him from an American,” said Ganesh, but he worries that his son’s chances of citizenship will be derailed on his 21st birthday.

Backlog Blues
Nearly a million people may be stuck in the current green card backlog, according to independent estimates — both the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security plead ignorance on the exact number. Even at its most efficient, the green card process can take more than a year, as each petition requires the approval of the Department of Labor, the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security. However, an annual per-country cap means that people from high-demand countries like Mexico, India, China and the Philippines have to wait years for a space to open up in the line for permanent residency. Fluctuations in processing times can cause further unpredictable delays. Many families wait more than a decade before receiving a final yea or nay on their green card petition.

Young people hoping to secure permanent residency through their immigrant parents have the most to lose from the delay. Families may petition for their green cards together, but dependents who turn 21 before reaching the final step must restart the process on their own. No matter how many years they have lived here, their options for staying in the U.S. are the same as any foreigner’s: They can marry a citizen, seek a student visa or try to secure a temporary worker visa like the H1-B, which also is subject to quotas. In essence, they go to the end of the green card line, possibly to wind up in some future backlog.

With no end in sight to the traffic jam, Ganesh sought reassurance in the DREAM Act. He reasoned that his son, a graduate of an American high school who has not left the country since arriving seven years ago, fit all the requirements. He later realized that the bill refers specifically to people who are under threat of deportation — i.e. the undocumented. He has not had the heart to tell his son, who is in the middle of exams. “I do not think politicians are aware of people like us,” Ganesh says. “If the senators realized how many people are in the same boat, I’m sure they would change the wording of the bill to preserve its spirit.”

That’s not a universal understanding of the bill’s spirit.

Some scoff at the idea that legal immigrants might lay claim to hardships of the core DREAM Act population. Undocumented youth live in constant danger of deportation, and they face a mandatory 10-year sanction if they go back to their home countries to apply for an American visa. Michael Olivas, director of the Institute of Higher Education Law and Governance at the University of Houston, bristles at the suggestion that legal students should benefit from a legislative victory by their undocumented peers. “If one of the (legal) kids ages out, they can go back to India and reapply,” he says. “The fact that these people feel sorry for themselves, well, that’s just not the Trail of Tears. They have many advantages. If they try to clamber aboard, that’s going to doom the DREAM Act.”

Advocates like Olivas are loath to make any changes to the DREAM Act that could endanger its long-fought support. In the absence of broader reform, narrow interest groups end up fighting for scraps of political will, says Aman Kapoor, founder and president of Immigration Voice, an advocacy group for legal immigrants. “Illegal immigration is a very important issue, because people are being exploited. But it has completely overshadowed legal immigrants,” he says.

In 2007, for instance, the House introduced a little-noticed provision to reduce the green card backlog by allowing unused visas to roll over from one year to another. That change would have made a major difference for people like Ganesh, but it was lost in the larger debate over border control and Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids.

Meanwhile, DREAM Act champion Sen. Durbin also advocates restrictions on the H1-B visa, the prime entry route for skilled immigrant workers. Kapoor sees a pattern. “Sometimes our members feel it would be better to flush their passport down the toilet. At least that way you’ll have your champions in Congress,” he said.

Some DREAM Act aspirants may take that idea literally. Lynne McCranor, an England-born ophthalmic researcher at the University of Indiana, says that bureaucratic delays caused her son to miss the family’s green card approval by just a few months. After struggling to do things by the book, she’d encourage him to drop his student visa and become illegal if it would help him gain permanent residency. “It makes a mockery of the DREAM Act, and I think the politicians need to realize that,” she said. “You’re forcing people to make very ugly choices.”

There are no guarantees that visa holders who deliberately become illegal would qualify for the DREAM Act — in fact, they could face steep penalties. Mark Hayes, a spokesman for DREAM Act co-sponsor Lugar, says that problems like the visa backlog will be weighed in the next round of comprehensive immigration reform — a weighty political undertaking that the Obama administration looks increasingly likely to postpone.

Here, Not Anywhere
Bhaskar Chitraju said he will support the DREAM Act whether or not it resolves his own visa problems. At the same time, he wonders why the very real prospect of losing his American life seems to count less because he is documented. He recently toyed with the idea of moving to Canada, which has a more open immigration policy for educated foreigners. India is also technically an option, though he doesn’t know anyone there.

He has rejected both options. “I want to start my business and live my life here. The people I care about are here,” he said. “I don’t want to be somewhere else for the sake of a permanent residency card.”

=====================================================

U.S. Visa Problems Still Hamper Foreign Students, Survey Suggests

Washington — The number of foreign students enrolled at American colleges and universities appears to be on the rebound, but the results of a study presented today at an international-education conference here suggest that the more-restrictive visa policies put in place after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks still may have a dampening effect on students and scholars coming to the United States.

Researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles presented the results of a 2007 electronic survey of 1,570 international students and academics, about 44 percent of the foreign students and scholars on the campus. The findings were presented at a session of the annual meeting of Nafsa: Association of International Educators, which wraps up today.

International students and scholars at UCLA reported that they had experienced delays at both American consulates abroad and ports of entry into the country. Thirty-eight percent of respondents with F-1 student visas and 56 percent of those with H1-B work visas said visa delays had forced them to alter their travel plans. Visitors from Africa were most likely to have had to delay their travel because of visa problems.

More than a third of all respondents said they had experienced delays at American consulates, while 39 percent of student-visa holders said they had been held up when attempting to enter the United States.

Many of those surveyed said that they worried visa issues were hindering their academic careers, said Shideh Hanassab, director of research at the university’s Dashew Center for International Scholars and Students and the author of a report on the study. In open-ended comments, respondents said that concerns about whether they would obtain a visa to re-enter the United States had prevented them from attending or delivering papers at international conferences.

A great many of those surveyed also expressed frustration with U.S. consular and customs officials whose attitudes, respondents said, made them feel like “criminals.” And 54 percent said the current immigration regulations did not make them feel safer.

Victor C. Johnson, senior adviser for public policy at Nafsa, said the UCLA findings illustrated the need for less-restrictive visa policies and for a coordinated federal approach to recruiting foreign students. —Karin Fischer

So people from other countries already have long waits just to get a visa. Now you want kids who have already lived here for most of their lives and went to school here K-12, to go to a country that they might not even remember living in, where they might not have any family left, and might not even speak that nations language. Meaning that they'd have to leave their family, friends, jobs, possibly children (who would be U.S. citizens) behind for an unknown length of time and risk never being able to return to the U.S., thus leaving everything they've ever known behind to chase a big MAYBE of actually ever becoming a U.S. citizen. And that's just to get a visa so applying for citizenship is a whole other process. And like SecondHand already mentioned there is A LOT of corruption in some of these third world countries where nothing is going to get done unless multiple officials are bribed. It would be like me going to Mexico to try to get a student visa. I don't know anybody in Mexico, it would be total culture shock, and I don't know anywhere near enough Spanish to get around. And that would be the case for a lot of people who's parents brought them here illegally as children or people who were children when their parents decided to stay here after their visas expired.

Quote

BUT....maybe I'm just different from you. I'll excuse you for it though since you're still young and haven't had to struggle to support your family YET. When you grow up and see that you don't get to just steal to get what you want in life, you may understand a little better. My wife has been wanting to return to school to finish her degree. Guess what? Because we're actual American citizens & make a combined salary of 70,000 per year, she doesn't qualify for any form of aid. Instead on our salaries, we get to support ourselves, and pay for my two children in high school as well as her son who just started his freshman year in college. WITHOUT a cent in financial aid. So take your whole statement of a feeling of entitlement and shove it up your pompous ass.

You don't know what I've been through in my life. You don't know what kind of sacrifices I've had to make for my family. In fact you don't know anything about me. So I don't know what makes you think I haven't struggled or made sacrifices. Now unlike you I don't feel the need to tell you about the sacrifices I've made to achieve the things I have achieved and the hard work I've done to get where I am today. I don't feel the need to give you my autobiography to validate my argument to you or to myself for that matter. But I'll put it this way and leave it at that, you're not the only person on this board who's worked hard and made sacrifices to get where he is today. And that's all I got to say on that topic.

Quote

As I stated previously, if you don't believe my credentials regarding teaching at the college, all you have to do is contact human resources and find out. Or are you too lazy to even do that since you apparently feel that people shouldn't actually have to DO things in life? I know this next statement doesn't mean a damn thing to you, but I like to actually speak my mind. I used to respect you and still do in many ways, BUT I have lost a great deal of respect for you considering you have shown your level of immaturity through your inability to debate a subject without personal attacks.

You lost a great deal of respect for me? Well now I'm all heart broken over that. I mean you may not know this, but I live just to get your respect. I don't know how I'm going to be able to sleep tonight knowing you've lost respect for me. My whole world is shattered now. But that's okay because I still love you.

Quote

As for anyone else on the forum, if I offended you with my views, I apologize for offending you, but I will not retract my statements.

As for my "knowledge" of how difficult it is to come here legally, it is likely more extensive than Mr. Bob Ross a.k.a. Mr. Jet.

Is the Bob Ross thing supposed to hurt my feelings or something. I like Bob Ross. He appeared to be a very peaceful and gentle man after spending time in the military. I still wish I could paint as well as he could.

Quote

We need to get our troops the hell back from the middle east and many other places around the globe.

And I can't agree more with that statement. See like I said I still love ya, (MSU beat the Muskrats again today so I'm REALLY in a good mood).

[azjetfan]

FlyHiJets, on 15 October 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think I need to follow your lead Az. Apparently some concepts are just too difficult for some people to understand and nothing we say or do will ever enlighten them. It's just sad when we as American taxpaying citizens get told we seem to have some sort of feeling of entitlement when it comes to our own money but yet we're the ones that get nothing for our money and then get told that while we're not entitled to have say in where our tax dollars go, but the illegals have every bit of entitlement to our money. I guess our families aren't entitled to the same luxuries afforded to the illegals. God forbid they actually have to file a FREE application to come to this country legally for an education.

Not to mention a random pieces of info will be found from somewhere online that we are supposed to take as factual. Even though we could find another saying the opposite.

[Mr_Jet]

azjetfan, on 15 October 2011 - 10:00 PM, said:

Not to mention a random pieces of info will be found from somewhere online that we are supposed to take as factual. Even though we could find another saying the opposite.

Like Reuters right?

[SecondHandJets]

FlyHiJets, on 15 October 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

SHJ.....you misunderstand my position. I've said it REPEATEDLY that I am NOT against foreigners coming to the US for an education. I am merely stating that they should have to do it the right way.

No you misunderstood me. This is not about the foreigners who come here for education. This is about the people that escape poverty in their homeland and come here for a chance at a better life. This isn't about college students at all. This is about millions of people who swim, walk and truck to the US. Most of them are illiterate farmhands that perform the lowest jobs for the lowest wages. However, a few of them are bright enough to one day seek an education... but more likely, these same people sneaking into our country bring their children with them. Those children are illegal too. This benefits them.

[FlyHiJets]

Mr_Jet, on 15 October 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Well first I guess I'll start by debunking this it's easy to get a student visa nonsense.

No offense Mr. Jet but PLEASE read the information you post trying to utilize to say its hard to get a student visa or debunk the getting a student visa. The FIRST example you use made me stop reading your point not even half way through when it hit THIS point:

His father, a computer programmer, applied for a green card as soon as he could file the paperwork. Bhaskar would have benefited from that petition, but at 21, he was hit by a provision called “aging out” — a consequence of a visa processing backlog that affects thousands of aspiring Americans a year. He continues to live in the United States on a student visa, but Bhaskar may be legally obligated to leave after he graduates from business school next year.

“I feel frustrated and helpless most of the time,” said Bhaskar, who insists he is determined to play by the rules,. “There’s so much uncertainty in my life — I don’t know if I’ll be here next year or not.”


Did you or this guy think a student VISA gave him permanent residency? And yet you have the balls to insinuate I'm uneducated? WTF is wrong with you or this guy? The rules regarding the visa is that you LEAVE and return to your home country after getting your degree. That was one of the THREE requirements to obtain the visa in the first place. It's honestly very sad that you don't read your own information prior to trying to use it to debate my position. The only thing you did was secure it even more.

[FlyHiJets]

SecondHandJets, on 16 October 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

No you misunderstood me. This is not about the foreigners who come here for education. This is about the people that escape poverty in their homeland and come here for a chance at a better life. This isn't about college students at all. This is about millions of people who swim, walk and truck to the US. Most of them are illiterate farmhands that perform the lowest jobs for the lowest wages. However, a few of them are bright enough to one day seek an education... but more likely, these same people sneaking into our country bring their children with them. Those children are illegal too. This benefits them.

So just because they bring their families with them, they're justified in illegal activity and "entitled" to steal from me and my family? I don't think so. They want a better life? EARN it by doing it the right way. not by kissing the ass of the scumbag in the white house that doesn't give a shit about the american citizens. I honestly think if I ever had the opportunity to meet Nobama, I'd spit dead in his face. And the sad thing is that he's f***ing this country over even more and setting us up even more because his opponents know they can put an even bigger crook in office just by running against his inept ass just because most americans want him gone. Even Nixon had a bigger approval rating than this idiot. Only Jimmy Carter had a lower rating then this bum.

[FlyHiJets]

Mr_Jet, on 15 October 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

So people from other countries already have long waits just to get a visa. Now you want kids who have already lived here for most of their lives and went to school here K-12, to go to a country that they might not even remember living in, where they might not have any family left, and might not even speak that nations language. Meaning that they'd have to leave their family, friends, jobs, possibly children (who would be U.S. citizens) behind for an unknown length of time and risk never being able to return to the U.S., thus leaving everything they've ever known behind to chase a big MAYBE of actually ever becoming a U.S. citizen. And that's just to get a visa so applying for citizenship is a whole other process. And like SecondHand already mentioned there is A LOT of corruption in some of these third world countries where nothing is going to get done unless multiple officials are bribed. It would be like me going to Mexico to try to get a student visa. I don't know anybody in Mexico, it would be total culture shock, and I don't know anywhere near enough Spanish to get around. And that would be the case for a lot of people who's parents brought them here illegally as children or people who were children when their parents decided to stay here after their visas expired.

Would you like to know who those "kids" can blame for having to go back to their own countries in order to get the proper documentation? Their criminal parents. I don't give a flying f*** where there go as long as they get out of this country until they come here legally. Do I care what happens to them in some other country? No. I don't. Not in the least. Are their countries worried about the american citizens in need in this country? I don't think so. Could some of the delays in processing ALSO be that these morons don't read that they should apply months before they want to begin classes. Probably not.

As for the ones crying "Waaa!!! I have to leave after getting my degree even though I agreed to before getting permission to come here." & "Waaaa!!! I have to leave because my work visa is expiring." AND "Waaaa!! They only gave me 5 years to get a 2-4 year degree."......my answer to all of them........You knew what your limits were & gladly accepted them. Now get the f*** out of my country like you agreed to do. Don't like it? Come to Trenton and talk to me about it sometime.

[SecondHandJets]

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

So just because they bring their families with them, they're justified in illegal activity and "entitled" to steal from me and my family? I don't think so. They want a better life? EARN it by doing it the right way. not by kissing the ass of the scumbag in the white house that doesn't give a shit about the american citizens. I honestly think if I ever had the opportunity to meet Nobama, I'd spit dead in his face. And the sad thing is that he's f***ing this country over even more and setting us up even more because his opponents know they can put an even bigger crook in office just by running against his inept ass just because most americans want him gone. Even Nixon had a bigger approval rating than this idiot. Only Jimmy Carter had a lower rating then this bum.

My problem with people like you is that you live in Hypothetical Town, smack in the middle of HowItShouldBe Lane. Look, no one gives a shit that you want to spit and shoot everyone. The fact of the matter is, every year, millions of people cross our border ILLEGALLY. Now, we've built fences, armed civilians and spent billions trying to keep them out... and it's not working. Throwing more money at the problem isn't going to solve anything. We're fighting against people who RISK DEATH TO COME HERE AND WASH OUR STARBUCKS BATHROOMS. Do you understand that? These people have NOTHING TO LOSE. They're here, whether Obama or Raegan or Pat Buchanan is President. Now. What are we going to do to mitigate this problem... REALISTICALLY. No we can't shoot them in the head. No we can't give them 20 year prison sentences. No we can't force people to not hire them because A. you can't supervise that and B. it will raise the cost of your f***ing food. What we can do is make sure that the ones that are here, are productive. We have to try to keep them out of violent gangs. Giving them an opportunity to earn a college degree is a HUGE step towards keeping some of them from becoming MS13 and robbing you in broad daylight. Do you have any problems conceptualizing any of what I said?

[FlyHiJets]

So your solution to the problem is to give in to them and just give them everything for free? If that's the case, then f*** it.....none of us should ever have to pay for anything such as healthcare or education. f*** it. You do that first & let me know how it works out for you. I guarantee your scumbag illegals wont come to your defense and our scumbag "president" wont help you out either.

What's wrong with you liberals? Your answer to stop them is to give in to them. My response would at least cut down on the number of these bloodsucking scum from coming here. If we started killing enough of them, they wouldn't want to take the risk now would they? But you know.....that makes too much sense and too many people are afraid of hearing the bitching, crying and moaning from a bunch of liberal pussies that don't have the backbone to defend their family by defending their borders. Nobama is a pussy just like every other piece of shit that ever wanted to give these scum free reign. Did you notice the other asshole that wanted to do this was Carter and he was the only other president to have an approval rating as low as this douchebag since the 1800's.

I don't live in an imaginary world. Maybe some of us actually care about this country while many of you defending this bullshit don't. As for the MS-13.....f*** them. They tried coming to Trenton but got ran the f*** out. Now we're working on getting the little pussy Bloods & Crips out of here too. Money Sex Murder my balls. These f***ing idiots cant even shoot straight.

Just because you don't like my ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. I guarantee you that more Americans would support my ideas than would agree with you and the scumbag in the white house wanting to give these assholes free reign of our country.

[SecondHandJets]

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

So your solution to the problem is to give in to them and just give them everything for free? If that's the case, then f*** it.....none of us should ever have to pay for anything such as healthcare or education. f*** it. You do that first & let me know how it works out for you. I guarantee your scumbag illegals wont come to your defense and our scumbag "president" wont help you out either.

My solution to the "problem" is to treat them as human beings. The problem with Americans is that none of you learn a damn thing from American history. Every time there was a class of people that was shitted on by this country, they ended up getting MORE than what they initially demanded for the simple fact that after a while, the nation of "opportunity" looked like a giant collective of douchebags.

We slaughtered the Natives, forced them off their land and denied them basically the right to shit where they wanted. So what ends up happening? The government gives them land, lets them build enterprises forbidden to the rest of us and they don't even have to pay federal taxes on the land or state taxes on any income derived off the casinos. That's fair, right?

The civil rights movement was black balled for 50 years. Now we have programs that assure that if 10 equally employable applicants show up for a job interview, the employer MUST hire the black one because that the law. Are you shitting me? You really want illegal aliens to skip ahead on the emergency room line in 20 years? Because that's were we're headed.

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

What's wrong with you liberals? Your answer to stop them is to give in to them. My response would at least cut down on the number of these bloodsucking scum from coming here. If we started killing enough of them, they wouldn't want to take the risk now would they? But you know.....that makes too much sense and too many people are afraid of hearing the bitching, crying and moaning from a bunch of liberal pussies that don't have the backbone to defend their family by defending their borders. Nobama is a pussy just like every other piece of shit that ever wanted to give these scum free reign. Did you notice the other asshole that wanted to do this was Carter and he was the only other president to have an approval rating as low as this douchebag since the 1800's.

Reread that paragraph again. That's exactly what I'm talking about. You offer no real solutions. Shoot them? Really? We're trying to show "spread Democracy" to the world and cure diseases but if you dare to come here and pick our strawberries we will f***ing blow your brains out. Dude...

I didn't vote for Obama. I don't care about his approval ratings. He's a dead duck but luckily for him, no Republican candidate will challenge him strongly enough and he'll have another 4 years to sugar coat his bullshit. The reality is, his hands are tied.

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

I don't live in an imaginary world. Maybe some of us actually care about this country while many of you defending this bullshit don't. As for the MS-13.....f*** them. They tried coming to Trenton but got ran the f*** out. Now we're working on getting the little pussy Bloods & Crips out of here too. Money Sex Murder my balls. These f***ing idiots cant even shoot straight.

That's great. I'm sure Trenton is going to be crime free one day. We'll rename it Imagination Land and all build houses out of ginger bread on Rainbow Avenue.

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

Just because you don't like my ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. I guarantee you that more Americans would support my ideas than would agree with you and the scumbag in the white house wanting to give these assholes free reign of our country.

You're not offering any ideas. Your idea to solve the illegal immigration problem is a f***ing Charles Bronson movie.

[FlyHiJets]

The only way Trenton will be free of its current bullshit is if the italians come back and take it over again which will never happen. Trenton is doomed, but at least the country as a whole still has half a chance IF we can finally stop the illegal issue. As for them skipping the line in 20 years....if you think about it, they're at the HEAD of the line because they get every f***ing thing free as it is whereas actual citizens have to wait until we can actually afford shit. And its because of liberals such as yourself & Mr Jet that they get away with it. The two of you and Nobama can bankrupt this country within a week fit he three of you had your way. f*** the American citizen as long as we "spread democracy" and give in to the illegals right? Bullshit too. f*** spreading democracy. This country's biggest problem is that you and people like you feel like we need to be the world's f***ing heroes or something. We wouldn't be in the Middle East LONG after Saddam was taken out & Bin Laden is dead so WTF are we still doing there?

You want a suggestion of a REAL solution? If we can dig trenches etc for oil, why the f*** can't we dig and create a canal between the US & Mexico? Us the dirt, etc to create reefs and a real barrier to protect low laying areas such as New Orleans? Do not allow the canal to be a shipping lane either. Have the thing be wide enough to where the part that is US waters gets lined with mines, etc. If we can put countless trillions of dollars worth of weapons overseas to protect people that don't want us there or need us there, we should be able to spend to protect our own country. If Obama is so concerned about Mexico or the Middle East, then let him move there. He won't be missed here. And I can all but guarantee you that the Republican that runs against him will surely win unless the f***ing scumbag goes as far as allowing them to vote while illegal too. He's already got all of their families votes in his pocket.

[SecondHandJets]

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 08:34 PM, said:

The only way Trenton will be free of its current bullshit is if the italians come back and take it over again which will never happen. Trenton is doomed, but at least the country as a whole still has half a chance IF we can finally stop the illegal issue. As for them skipping the line in 20 years....if you think about it, they're at the HEAD of the line because they get every f***ing thing free as it is whereas actual citizens have to wait until we can actually afford shit. And its because of liberals such as yourself & Mr Jet that they get away with it. The two of you and Nobama can bankrupt this country within a week fit he three of you had your way. f*** the American citizen as long as we "spread democracy" and give in to the illegals right? Bullshit too. f*** spreading democracy. This country's biggest problem is that you and people like you feel like we need to be the world's f***ing heroes or something. We wouldn't be in the Middle East LONG after Saddam was taken out & Bin Laden is dead so WTF are we still doing there?

I'm less Liberal than you. The only difference between us, is that I have a shred of common sense. What does Obama have to do with anything? He's not the one giving illegals education and he's not the one that sent us to Iraq. He inherited a giant ball of shit and made it bigger. Nothing you can really say about him will change the views of his supporters or his haters. He's governing a country which still envisions itself as a world leader in a global marketplace where we are treading water because we are no longer at the cutting edge of any industry.

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 08:34 PM, said:

You want a suggestion of a REAL solution? If we can dig trenches etc for oil, why the f*** can't we dig and create a canal between the US & Mexico? Us the dirt, etc to create reefs and a real barrier to protect low laying areas such as New Orleans? Do not allow the canal to be a shipping lane either. Have the thing be wide enough to where the part that is US waters gets lined with mines, etc. If we can put countless trillions of dollars worth of weapons overseas to protect people that don't want us there or need us there, we should be able to spend to protect our own country. If Obama is so concerned about Mexico or the Middle East, then let him move there. He won't be missed here. And I can all but guarantee you that the Republican that runs against him will surely win unless the f***ing scumbag goes as far as allowing them to vote while illegal too. He's already got all of their families votes in his pocket.

Are you serious? First of all, you canal will not stop any Mexican. We have millions of immigrants coming here from the Carribean and guess what? None of them know how to walk on water. You know who the trench will affect? You. Most of our products are shipped here from Latin American through Mexico. They drive right through the border. If you make it into a giant moat, those products now have to be trucked to the moat, unloaded, loaded into boats, shipped accross the moat, unloaded, loaded back up into trucks etc. You've just added an extra $1 to the cost of every bar of soap.

I'm not even going to tackle the absurdity of digging a trench 2000 miles long and god knows how deep (the Panama Canal is 48 miles and the Suez Canal is 120). It would be cheaper and easier to colonize the moon.

[FlyHiJets]

I'm more than willing to pay the extra $1 on each and every product out there if it would help us rid this country of illegals. Not just from Mexico but from everywhere. And if you think Obama isn't the one wanting to grant them asylum then you're high or drunk. One or the other.

Did he inherit a shitstorm? you're damn right he did. But did he make anything better? Obviously not. Instead, he wants to "spread demoracy" even though he wants this country to be socialist. He thinks he can just do whatever he wants. I have news for him. He can't.

If you think I'm a liberal, you're wrong. I don't affiliate myself with any politician or political party. I'm an American that actually thinks that we shoould care for our own before taking care of the rest of the world.

[FlyHiJets]

Mr. Jet & SHJ and anyone else that is against what I'm saying.....do you even understand anything I've said? STOP acting like I'm against these people making better lives for themselves by coming here. I'm NOT against them coming here. I'm against them coming here illegally. You bitch & cry that they cant do it legally so I outlined the very requirements for you. Then you cry that after they get their education that they have to leave AS AGREED upon by them. Why agree to it to begin with if you're not going to hold up your end of the bargain? That's why it's called a TEMPORARY visa. Or do you not understand what the definition of temporary is?

They are CRIMINALS by being here past their visas or by coming here illegally to begin with. Stop supporting the criminalization of our country. Isn't that supposedly why they want to escape their own country? Because its full of crime and poverty? What the f*** do you think is going on with this country? Full of crime. TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. The highest unemployment rates since the 30's. Why do we have these unemployment rates? Could it be because there are MILLIONS of jobs taken by illegals in this country? Wake the f*** up people.

[Jetsfan115]

i'm gonna chime in since i live in california. truth is people hire illegals cause they work for less. and not only that they do it off the books and take the money right back to mexico. what alot of them do is they stay here for a few months and they work for like 40 bucks a day doing hard labor and after 3 months they have 2400 bucks and they go right back to mexico with it and spend it there. usually you'll see them outside of home depots because people will buy supplies for painting etc and then hire them for the day to do all the work instead of hiring a contractor for like 1000 dollars or doing it themselves. so they get it done dirt cheap. and since contracters lose soo much work this way they have to lay people off. i know companies who employ labor like this and pay them like 40 bucks a day and hire them to do electrical, painting, lighting, etc and then big companies hire these companies to do the work and pay them like 40 bucks an hour cause there cheap and they say oh well if they fuck something up we'll hire real electricians to fix it at 95 an hour but most of the work gets done cheap and nobody cares cause it lowers the bottom line.

[SecondHandJets]

Jetsfan115, on 16 October 2011 - 09:21 PM, said:

i'm gonna chime in since i live in california. truth is people hire illegals cause they work for less. and not only that they do it off the books and take the money right back to mexico. what alot of them do is they stay here for a few months and they work for like 40 bucks a day doing hard labor and after 3 months they have 2400 bucks and they go right back to mexico with it and spend it there. usually you'll see them outside of home depots because people will buy supplies for painting etc and then hire them for the day to do all the work instead of hiring a contractor for like 1000 dollars or doing it themselves. so they get it done dirt cheap. and since contracters lose soo much work this way they have to lay people off. i know companies who employ labor like this and pay them like 40 bucks a day and hire them to do electrical, painting, lighting, etc and then big companies hire these companies to do the work and pay them like 40 bucks an hour cause there cheap and they say oh well if they f*** something up we'll hire real electricians to fix it at 95 an hour but most of the work gets done cheap and nobody cares cause it lowers the bottom line.

Right. What do we do about it?

[SecondHandJets]

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

Mr. Jet & SHJ and anyone else that is against what I'm saying.....do you even understand anything I've said? STOP acting like I'm against these people making better lives for themselves by coming here. I'm NOT against them coming here. I'm against them coming here illegally. You bitch & cry that they cant do it legally so I outlined the very requirements for you. Then you cry that after they get their education that they have to leave AS AGREED upon by them. Why agree to it to begin with if you're not going to hold up your end of the bargain? That's why it's called a TEMPORARY visa. Or do you not understand what the definition of temporary is?

I'm not having a philosophical debate with you on whether or not they're right or wrong for coming here in the first place. We know the answer to that. We also know that whether right or wrong, THEY'RE HERE. Again, this is not about INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. This is about illegal aliens who come here and work in the shittiest jobs.

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

They are CRIMINALS by being here past their visas or by coming here illegally to begin with. Stop supporting the criminalization of our country. Isn't that supposedly why they want to escape their own country? Because its full of crime and poverty? What the f*** do you think is going on with this country? Full of crime. TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. The highest unemployment rates since the 30's. Why do we have these unemployment rates? Could it be because there are MILLIONS of jobs taken by illegals in this country? Wake the f*** up people.

Wait, you think illegals are taking jobs Americans want? As far as I can recall, the jobs that they're doing now were jobs that were always performed by immigrants who came here with no education and minimal English. At what point were Americans washing bathrooms in diners or were picking their own fruit? The jobs that Americans lost were the ones that went to India and China.

[Mr_Jet]

FlyHiJets, on 16 October 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

No offense Mr. Jet but PLEASE read the information you post trying to utilize to say its hard to get a student visa or debunk the getting a student visa. The FIRST example you use made me stop reading your point not even half way through when it hit THIS point:

His father, a computer programmer, applied for a green card as soon as he could file the paperwork. Bhaskar would have benefited from that petition, but at 21, he was hit by a provision called “aging out” — a consequence of a visa processing backlog that affects thousands of aspiring Americans a year. He continues to live in the United States on a student visa, but Bhaskar may be legally obligated to leave after he graduates from business school next year.

“I feel frustrated and helpless most of the time,” said Bhaskar, who insists he is determined to play by the rules,. “There’s so much uncertainty in my life — I don’t know if I’ll be here next year or not.”


Did you or this guy think a student VISA gave him permanent residency? And yet you have the balls to insinuate I'm uneducated? WTF is wrong with you or this guy? The rules regarding the visa is that you LEAVE and return to your home country after getting your degree. That was one of the THREE requirements to obtain the visa in the first place. It's honestly very sad that you don't read your own information prior to trying to use it to debate my position. The only thing you did was secure it even more.

LOL, man you're just proving me right. See if you had read that article you would have known after reading it that the article was not about undocumented immigrants (the scum in your words) but rather the DOCUMENTED immigrants. Bhaskar is an example of a person who is here LEGALLY but is still in danger of being deported even though he has a student visa. Proving your student visa being a step on the pathway to citizenship argument was just a bunch of nonsense. Bhasker's father tried to do things the right way by trying to get a green card YEARS AGO, but it still hasn't happened yet and now his son might have to leave a country which he has grew up knowing as his home. That article showed that even people who do things the right way are still in jeopardy of being deported. Highly skilled, educated people who this country can not afford to lose right now. See if you had read the entire article you would have known that. You would have known that because of backlogs and delays it's a longer process to become a U.S. citizen then you want to believe, even for people who are here legally (like folks with student visas). The article also points of that the U.S. only accepts a certain number of people a year from each country. Meaning people from high demand countries (like Mexico, India, and China) might have to wait for over a decade before even getting an answer about becoming a citizen let alone becoming one.

But you're clearly still too butt hurt over my little laying off teachers comment to see that. You just couldn't wait to reply to me so you just skipped the article since you knew you wouldn't like what it says anyway since I'm the one that posted it. Please try to get over the teachers comment. I've said a lot worse (and could have said worse there) to others on this board and they didn't get their feelings as hurt as badly as you appeared to have. You sound like the one that needs to paint some happy little trees, because you need to release some of your hostility in a less violent manner. The point I'm trying to get across to you is this shooting illegal immigrants talk of yours is way over the top. And if I didn't already believe you were full of hot air and just a bunch of big talk, I'd actually be worried for anybody that looks Mexican that comes within shooting distance of you. But I know you're not going to do shit because if you really meant what you said and believed it, you would have done it by now. You're not Charles Bronson, John Wayne, or Clint Eastwood. They were just acting and the people they shot didn't really die.