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Iraq War Agree or Disagree

#61 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:02 PM

i will do that and i challenge you to do the same. of course there is a chance that a website could be lying also but i'm talking about undeniable proof. there are things like charleton heston giving a speech and him having a blue tie on then a red tie on then back to a blue tie because moore spliced two different speeches together. so how and why would heston be up in front of a room of people giving a speech and during the speech he changes his tie from blue to red and back to blue in the course of 30 seconds? because he was trying to make a fashion statement? no. it's because moore spliced two different speeches that heston gave together. he did it to make it seem like like heston said something that he really didn't say so that heston would seem insesensitive. pretty much the whole movie is contrived like this. this type of "documentary" isn't called spin or slant. stuff like that is undeniable.

i'm going to watch 9/11 now because i talked to you on this site. i hope you take my advice and disect those "documentaries" like i did. i think you will find it very interesting.
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#62 User is offline   pete2319 Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:06 PM

who gets the money when you rent it? Our soldiers? The people in Flint?

Have any of you seen what Moore makes and where he lives? Go on keep supporting him and build your beliefs off of him. (sarcasm). you'll get far in life. My advice is to use the media as an information device but use your common sense to build your own beliefs. Your beliefs are your own and no one should try and change that. Advice is good, but use it wisely.
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#63 User is offline   ellisjersey92 Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE (a1elbow @ Apr 20 2005, 07:34 PM)
Which is exactly why you can't believe any one source.  Far too many people get their information from just really conservative sources or just very liberal sources.  You can't believe what people that show any sort of bias are reporting.  If someone writes a story, before you go around quoting what they say in it, you have to check their sources. 

Those websites (I have never seen them, so I'm assuming here) are most likely just the far right version of Moore.  Plenty of what he says is true.  He is a sensationalist and bends the facts to what he wants, just like many media outlets.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have anything right, it just means he doesn't have everything right.


completely, positively, exactly what i was trying to make clear......well said

sounds good locojet...and one thing about heston, i see what you are saying and he probably does some things like that, but i dont think what people get out of the movie comes from charleton heston making a speech. it's things like that, that take away the little bit of credibility the movie has, in some people's minds, but if you get past that, there are some pretty rock solid points he makes about the bush administration and the wars in afghanistan and iraq

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#64 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:55 PM

a1elbow i believe you just side-stepped my point
can't anyone tell us why we are in this war?
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#65 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:57 PM

you wont understand unless you look for yourself. pretty much the whole movie is like that. the heston thing was one example of what i'm talking about. he may have some good points but if they aren't based on fact they are worthless.
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#66 User is offline   ellisjersey92 Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:03 PM

ok...and i will check the site out... do you have anymore, in addition to moorelies?

and pete....if you rent it from blockbuster, the money just goes to blockbuster, because the copy of the movie has already been bought. check out a local library too, you won't be contributing to moore's son's tuition there.

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#67 Guest_a1elbow_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (haveyouseenpenningtonplay @ Apr 20 2005, 06:30 PM)
a1elbow i believe you just side-stepped my point
can't anyone tell us why we are in this war?


I wasn't even addressing that part of your post. I don't feel someone can answer that if they don't think we should have gone to war. As such, I can't say what they did, except be a "rogue nation" that happened to have oil.
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#68 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:13 PM

here is the link of what i read while i paused and played the movie. pretty much all of his movie is a lie. i don't know how to explain to you the difference between truth and lies or even how to explain the existence of them because i'm not nitche or plato or god but what i do know is that moore doesn't tell the truth. this means he is a liar. if you watch this movie and read this link you will see what i mean. the link isn't some piece of conservative blog that a guy with a swastika tattoo and a tube of lipstick cooked up. if you do it you will see why i don't really care what the man says in 9/11. i'm not scared that i might see the liberal truth, become a pot head and vote for hillary in '08. ok? i don't want to clutter my mind with any more of this guys bullshit. you do what you want to do. i'm totally ok with it. here is the link if you want to know.

http://www.hardylaw....ut_Bowling.html

btw i really dont want to see hillary in the whitehouse because that means that bill will be back in there as well. i dont think the whitehouse needs to get its furniture stolen when they get evicted again. i mean voted out again.

*beep* cheney

laugh.gif biggrin.gif laugh.gif

it bleeps out *beep* cheney
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#69 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE (a1elbow @ Apr 20 2005, 07:40 PM)
I wasn't even addressing that part of your post.  I don't feel someone can answer that if they don't think we should have gone to war.  As such, I can't say what they did, except be a "rogue nation" that happened to have oil.


you're a good man a1
even though you dont have the answers you're man enough to own up to the fact
is there no man on this site that knows why we're in this war with iraq?
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#70 Guest_a1elbow_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:57 PM

Well, it isn't tha I don't have the answers. I could say all that nonsense about Al Queda and defending the oppressed, but I don't believe that is why. Other people will say that, but I can't because I think it isn't true.

As I have already said, I think we are there for the reasons of oil, money, and down the list there may have been some more noble reasons.
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#71 User is offline   ellisjersey92 Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:11 PM

i can tell you, but it would be repeating what he just said.

think about this. if the us was seriously attacked in some way, there is a possibility that they would use nuclear weapons as a reaction. why can't another country have the same rights. because they might unjustly attack us? didnt we unjustly attack iraq? and that is the lie the government used to go to war. and that wasnt even true, so as far as i'm concerned, both their reason and their lie are no good. like i said before, they rode the wave of anti-arab/muslim sentiment to knock off an emerging nation from gaining power, political leverage from their oil, and they invaded iraq to oust a dictator who, while doing some terrible things, minded his own business since the first gulf war. along with the forementioned issues, the US managed to get rid of a dictator they plain didnt like. and while i dont really see bush invading for any reason having to do with his father's attempt, i wouldnt completely rule it out as a factor.

but soon, the shit is going to hit the fan, and there are going to be some pointed, straight foreward questions aimed at the president and his chiefs of staff, mabye even coming from a kenneth starr successor

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#72 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 09:55 PM

very well said both of you and thank you
now lets hear it from the other side; the war supporters
JSOTF why are we at war?
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#73 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 09:42 AM

I went to war because I was ordered to, I do not question orders.

As far as the movie Farehnhiet 9/11.....I couldnt bring myself to watch it. I would not spend money to hear some fat ass bash what many soldiers have fought for: his right to bend the truth, based on his personal problem with our current commander in chief. There is another movie out there along those lines; FarenHYPE 9/11...But it all depends on what you believe in.....

As far as the reason we went to Iraq....We had bad or no intelligence...we did remove a violent dictator from power...did he have WMDs? are we getting billions of barrells of oil? I believe that we did a good thing, however I would take it all back if 155 + soldiers were still here....
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#74 User is offline   ellisjersey92 Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 12:54 PM

the fact that you went to war because you dont question orders is exactly why the anti war protests arent against the soldiers. and of course i cant know what you are thinking, but is it possible that war supporters, current soldiers and vets are digging for a reason that their lives and the lives of their friends and family are being lost? i honestly dont think there is a legitimate one, and it is such a shame.

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#75 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 03:26 PM

hey, your entitled your opinion......but my personal experience has me feeling like the anti-war protestors are against the soldiers also.....I feel that if I go off to combat for whatever the reason is, you shouldn't see protestors on TV or internet that are protesting against what you are doing....it makes you very sick to your stomach as a soldier.....I am not an advocate of loosing lives, I have had to tell families that thier son fought well and was proud to serve.....16 in the last 4 years to be exact....all of them very close friends....I am not here to say that we went to war for the right or wrong reason...I am saying support the soldiers and vote so that your elected officials cannot send soldiers off to fight for a personal vandetta against someone.....or for oil...or for personal pleasure......
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#76 User is offline   ellisjersey92 Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 03:54 PM

very true, and that is what i was saying the whole time. i am against the war, but i support the soldiers in their following of orders, and serving the country in whatever the gov't tells them to do. i think almost all of the antiwar protestors feel the same way. they are against the govt sending the soldiers in the first place, not the soldiers going because of an order

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#77 User is offline   LocoJet Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:01 PM

we are in this war because al quada bombed us. the democrats chose to think that iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror because it would make bush look bad. why did they do this? so they could get elected. that is their right. maybe it's why they lost the election.

i chose to beleive that iraq does have something to do with the war on terror. i'm not going to explain the history of saddam hussein and iraq and how he came to power in iraq but its a very bloody story.

the fact is that the middle east is a very unstable region. us going into afghanistan and iraq is the first step in making it a less anti-american and anti-israeli place. you can call it "world domination" "war for oil" "oppressing the arabs" or what ever you want to. i call it doing what is necessary to protect this country. in 5 years iraq and afghanistan will be on their feet and there will be 55 million arab people in the middle east that are able to stand up to people like saddam and bin laden. why will they be able to do this? because we came in and set up a democratic government. iraq has everthing to do with the war on terror. afghanistan and iraq were pretty much just us planting seeds. you can say we didn't have proof or that bush lied in front of congress to get the war approved. even if he did lie about the wmds i still think the war was the right thing to do. its that phrase "we're here to preserve democracy not to practice it". shady? yes. i still think it was the right thing to do. i'm not saying that bush did give phoney info in front of congress because there was evidence of iraq having wmds. he used sarin gas on iranians during the iran iraq war. the whole world knows about how saddam used sarin gas on the iranians and the kurds. peace nuts foam at the mouth when you ask them about the atrocities that saddam has committed but when you say lets take him down they say oh he isn't that bad. anyways, whether bush lied or not i still think saddam was a rotten apple in the middle east. proof or no proof. if you look at how saddam grew up and how he came to power you would know how dangerous this type of guy is. he doesn't deserve his own country. at least bush will be gone in 3 years. saddam would have been in there for life in iraq if we didn't take him down. why? because saddam has killed and continued to kill anybody that opposed his rule in iraq. its called an iron fist.
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#78 User is offline   JSOTF Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:41 PM

LocoJet,

Well said, I agree with you....You hit the nail on the head about dems and repubs....exactly the whole issue right there....
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#79 User is offline   haveyouseenpenningtonplay Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 08:13 PM

Here's my problem
We did not go into the middle east to fight Saddam
We went in to capture Osama Bin Laden and the people affiliated with the 9/11 disaster
That was a just cause to go into battle
But for one reason or another we got way off track and even changed our main goal in the middle east
Why? Oil? Democracy? I don't know and no one can really say for sure
But what i do know is that we need to focus on whats much more important to us as a country and that's irradicating all terrorism
Afganistan is the country we should be in not Iraq in my opinion
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#80 User is offline   gmany3k Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 08:18 PM

fellas............. you do know that there are secrets kept from all of us concerning
all matters of world government. after 50 years then we get to hear or read about those secrets but it is still censored otherwise we young inpressionable men and women would not fight the wars unless we where in fear of our life which by then it would be to late.so reasons for war have not changed never will. it is we who are new to war. thou shall not covet................you guys are really only talking about a tiny part of man's history in the scheme of GOD's creation.
this is why I put SATAN TOPICS IN HERE. so you would be exposed to the big picture.

Here is a small point. castro couldn't shine our shoes .he was trained by the CIA. He is our dictator.ALWAYS HAS BEEN. saddam is a dictator too guess who's?yep ours.Dictatorships are set up all over the history of the world. IT keeps regions stable. I remember when george bush came into office a book came out telling us about the wars that were coming in the next decade.middle east. I will have to search for the book as a reference. this was 1988.
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