NYJetsFan.com Forums: Bill Callahan Turned Down Extension With Jets - NYJetsFan.com Forums

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER

Mr_Jet Icon : (21 April 2015 - 03:57 PM) He doesn't want to play for a franchise based in Los Angeles, but he'd be okay with playing for one based in New York City?
azjetfan Icon : (21 April 2015 - 04:28 PM) That's the point we have all been making.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:05 PM) Jets vs colts Monday night week2
MikeGangGree... Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:09 PM) Jets open at home against the browns
ganggreen2003 Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:52 PM) Week 5 Bye after the London Game against the Dolphags
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) Rivers is likely going to Tennessee. Would LOVE to have him here but we likely won't make the trade. I'd easily give this year and next year
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) 's first rounder for him
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 11:03 AM) IMO that's a steep price. I would swap this years first and a conditional 1st next year. Assuming we make the AFC Championship. That would be a 28-32nd pick. Otherwise a second.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:07 PM) Yes 2 1st is a lot
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:10 PM) draft is next week, pumped
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:02 PM) What are thoughts on getting a RB in round 1? McShay's newest mock has us taking Gurley at 6. I don't think we should take him that high, but if we trade down and he's available I'd love to snag him, ACL and all. He's got an unreal skill set that, once healthy, will translate readily to the NFL. We're not getting a QB this year without paying a king's ransom, and unless we pay a ransom for a top guy I say ignore QB. I don't want us to take a Hundley or Petty type in the 2nd or 3rd round when we need other pieces (edge rush, OL)
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:09 PM) We can probably get Gordon in the second. I would pass at 6. If QB is not available a pass rusher will be. Our biggest needs are QB Pass rusher and Oline.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:34 PM) any thourghts on shane ray? i see a lot of mocks have us drafting him
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:35 PM) last one i seen had us taking cooper, a RB, and hundley for our 1st 3 picks. not thrilled about that
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:38 PM) I don't like Gordon much. Not much of a receiver or blocker, ball security issues, tries to bounce outside too much, stuffed frequently. Gurley is in a league of his own
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:39 PM) Ray is pretty highly regarded. I'm betting he, Dupree, and Gregory will be our best options as well as edge rushers at 6, but I think that's too high for any of them
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:43 PM) Personally love Cooper, I know WR isn't our biggest need but he may be the most NFL ready guy in the Draft. If we stick to the 6th pick and Fowler, Beasley, and Mariota are gone, Cooper is the guy to get. I'd even take him over Beasley
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) i don't mind cooper. decker isn't number 1 IMO and marshall is expensive and getting old
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) and we never draft a WR high
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) but o-line and QB are huge needs. i wouldn't take o-line 6th overall, but i think our 2nd or 3rd should be o-line
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:46 PM) we need an OLB as well. if we don't land a QB i'd like to see OLB adn O-line with 2 of our top 3 picks
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:16 PM) I agree on Deck, not a true #1 and he's had a checkered history with injuries. Marshall has 2, maybe 3 productive years left, which is why Cooper is an option
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:17 PM) And I agree with you on edge rusher & OL being bigger needs, but there really isn't a lineman I'd take at 6
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:19 PM) So the way I see it, assuming Winston and Mariota are taken when we're at 6, that Fowler and Cooper are our best choices, and I'd be stunned if Fowler drops. I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if we land Cooper
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:47 PM) Apparently Tennessee wanted both of Cleveland's #1's and their 2nd rounder to move up to the #2 spot to get Mariota. Still think two 1st rounders are too much for Rivers? He makes us instant contenders and if we make a deep playoff run, it would really be this year's 1st and what equates to basically a 2nd rounder next year.
If not, get Cooper in the 1st and then grab Hundley in the 2nd and O-line in the 3rd.
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:05 PM) I wouldn't be upset with Cooper, hes a stud
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:06 PM) Not sure about Ray. Dupree is rising on the draft boards, ridiculously athletic for his size
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:07 PM) Dupree is 6'4 270 and has a amazing get off and runs a 4.5
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Problem is he doesn't have big sack numbers in college, I rather draft a productive guy high
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Vic Beasley is insanely athletic as well and was hugely productive in college, good bet is that Beasley will be a 10+ sack guy in the NFL
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:12 PM) Beasley should be a stud but he gets caught up hand fighting if he doesn't beat his guy quickly. He'll likely end up as an OLB but we'll see
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:15 PM) He'd be a good fit in our defense, because we could use that speed guy on the outside
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:27 AM) I'd love Rivers, but we should be able to get him without paying 2 first rounders
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:29 AM) Lot of buzz about Dupree going top 10, most mocks I see have us getting either Ray or Dupree at 6. I prefer Dupree, like you said insane athlete for his size
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 06:30 AM) I like Beasley as well but I have a strong feeling Washington will snag him. But he is a small dude, it'd be nice if he'd add some bulk (in Clemson reportedly played around 230)
Chaos Icon : (23 April 2015 - 10:11 AM) @ArifHasanNFL

.@LanceZierlein says on http://sports790.com that Shane Ray will need surgery on foot, 5 months recovery. "Could drop out of first"
Chaos Icon : (23 April 2015 - 10:14 AM) this should change up the top 10
Chadforpresi... Icon : (23 April 2015 - 12:16 PM) Damn that's big. If he drops out of round 1 that could be a massive bargain for whoever gets him round 2. Dupree now looks more like the edge rusher we'd get at 6
MikeGangGree... Icon : (24 April 2015 - 09:40 PM) TEH RANGERS
santana Icon : (24 April 2015 - 11:32 PM) TEH WIZ
Jetsman05 Icon : (Today, 06:57 AM) Teh Suarez
Jetsman05 Icon : (Today, 06:58 AM) Vic Beasley is all speed. No moves, no power. Straight up the field. Could have some big games, then nothing in the next
Jetsman05 Icon : (Today, 06:59 AM) If we don't get Mariota, we should be looking at Schreff or trading down, IMO.
Jetsman05 Icon : (Today, 06:59 AM) A lot of good edge rushers in this draft... I wouldn't want to take Dupree that high.
Jetsman05 Icon : (Today, 07:00 AM) Until next time fellas!
Resize Shouts Area

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

Bill Callahan Turned Down Extension With Jets

#1 User is offline   J-E-T-S 4417 Icon

  • Line Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 622
  • Joined: 12-January 07
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:58 AM

Despite Rex Ryanís defense of offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer Wednesday, there are many in New York that believe the team will make a change at offensive coordinator after the season.

Count Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com among that group.

ďRyanís response to the Schottenheimer job-security question was telling,Ē Cimini wrote. ďHe looked away, there was a nervous laugh, and he went on and on about how itís unfair to blame a coach ó except him.Ē

If Schottenheimer goes, offensive line coach Bill Callahan is a logical candidate to replace him. But itís possible Callahan could also choose to leave.

Cimini writes that Callahan has turned down multiple contract extension offers from the Jets, including recently. Callahan, whose contact is up, decided to keep his options open. (Perhaps so he could join old pal Jon Gruden somewhere.)

Itís not hard to look beneath Ryanís support of Shottenheimer and see frustration. The Jets dropped back to pass on 67 plays against the Giants. Thatís the most for any NFL team in a regulation game since 2008.

ďI donít see us throwing the ball 60 times ever again,Ē Ryan said. ďI donít think any of us could believe we threw it that many times. I know I canít.Ē
0

#2 User is offline   A1elbow Icon

  • LB Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,890
  • Joined: 07-October 09

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:01 PM

View PostJ-E-T-S 4417, on 29 December 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

"I don't see us throwing the ball 60 times ever again," Ryan said. "I don't think any of us could believe we threw it that many times. I know I can't."


Then how did it happen? At halftime didn't it occur to Ryan to do something about it?
Posted Image


Exterminate all rational thought, that is the conclusion I have come to
0

#3 User is offline   Chaos Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 3,157
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:09 PM

So IF Schitty is fired, Rex is going to have to find someone outside the organization? Hopefully this gets some new blood and ideas running through the organization.
0

#4 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,489
  • Joined: 28-November 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

Can I get an an "AMEN" for Norv Muthafuckin Turner?!
0

#5 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

  • Patron Saint of ESPNU
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 7,050
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Carolina
  • Interests:Jets, Gators, Liverpool, Lightning

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:41 PM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 29 December 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

Can I get an an "AMEN" for Norv Muthafuckin Turner?!


No.
0

#6 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

  • 2008 Best Insider Award
  • Icon
  • View blog
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 31,145
  • Joined: 02-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:---
  • Interests:Hardcore Jets & Knicks fan - Gym rat - health and nutrition - family man and proud father.

    Twitter: @NYJETSFANCOM

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:00 PM

First of all I doubt Norv will take an O.C job. It's like getting demoted. Plus is a pass first O.C. Rex wants old school ground and pound. Forget about Norv turner.

Interesting about Callahan, they wanted to resign him as an OL coach not an OC. Interesting. This tells me that 1. Callahan wants to look for an O.C job and 2. turns down OL coach extension because he wants to be Jets O.C. Something along those lines.

If Jets have offered him an extension being an OL coach then they must not view him as an O.C which might be a good thing.
0

#7 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,314
  • Joined: 31-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:10 PM

Turner in 2012

View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
0

#8 User is offline   Amen Icon

  • Head Writer / 2008 Best Mod Award
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 5,518
  • Joined: 17-April 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 29 December 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

Can I get an an "AMEN" for Norv Muthafuckin Turner?!


Sure.
0

#9 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,314
  • Joined: 31-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:51 PM

View PostS-Dubb, on 29 December 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

First of all I doubt Norv will take an O.C job. It's like getting demoted. Plus is a pass first O.C. Rex wants old school ground and pound. Forget about Norv turner.

Interesting about Callahan, they wanted to resign him as an OL coach not an OC. Interesting. This tells me that 1. Callahan wants to look for an O.C job and 2. turns down OL coach extension because he wants to be Jets O.C. Something along those lines.

If Jets have offered him an extension being an OL coach then they must not view him as an O.C which might be a good thing.


This is like deja vu.

View PostMr_Jet, on 29 November 2011 - 06:32 PM, said:

Turner is a run first coach. He uses the run to set up the deep pass. He's always done great when he's had a strong run attack. People just think he's an air it out guy because he's had Philip Rivers all these years and he coaches the Chargers which is the franchise that made "Air Coryell" famous. But the Chargers were at their best when they had LT, Turner, and/or Sproles. Now that they're all gone they suck, that's not a coincidence. He also coached Emmitt Smith early in his career along with Ricky Williams and Frank Gore. They all had some pretty good seasons with him. In fact Gore's best season (a Pro Bowl season) was the one season Turner was the 49ers OC. Turner being a air it out coach is a misconception.


Turner when he was an OC he had some of the top ranked rushing offenses. Also Norv has taken OC jobs after being an HC before (Cowboys OC, then Redskins HC, then Dolphins OC, Raiders HC then 49ers OC) so he's taken that demotion before so I doubt he'd have a problem being an OC again. Especially for a defensive minded HC like Rex is.

View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
0

#10 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

  • Patron Saint of ESPNU
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 7,050
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Carolina
  • Interests:Jets, Gators, Liverpool, Lightning

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:14 PM

View PostMr_Jet, on 29 December 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

Especially for a defensive minded HC like Rex is.


And someone who clearly thinks so highly of Norv Turner. I mean, it's a match made in heaven after Rex's endearing comments about him before the SD game this season.
0

#11 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,753
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:20 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 29 December 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

Then how did it happen? At halftime didn't it occur to Ryan to do something about it?


he only threw like 15 times in the 1ts half. i think he was 13 for 15 and a TD and like 120 yards. and we were dominating the game. we should have came out in the 2nd half and played exactly the same way we did in the 1st half. we were down 3 but thats becuase a missed FG and a luck 99 yard play by the giants. it should have been 10-3 us at teh half sitcking to the balanced offense would have been fine but he went pass crazy
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#12 User is offline   jet-man Icon

  • Drafted Rookie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: 04-September 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:27 PM

if norv is the choice, then finally the jets may draft those big fast reciever types, and /or rb's. mcnight is not a viable back up. powell dances too much and doesn't hit the hole. rb. trent richardson can scare a def.
0

#13 User is offline   A1elbow Icon

  • LB Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,890
  • Joined: 07-October 09

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 29 December 2011 - 04:20 PM, said:

he only threw like 15 times in the 1ts half. i think he was 13 for 15 and a TD and like 120 yards. and we were dominating the game. we should have came out in the 2nd half and played exactly the same way we did in the 1st half. we were down 3 but thats becuase a missed FG and a luck 99 yard play by the giants. it should have been 10-3 us at teh half sitcking to the balanced offense would have been fine but he went pass crazy


All I'm saying is the HC should have an idea that his OC is planning on throwing the ball 60+ times in a close game. And if that wasn't the plan, he should have stepped in and ripped Schotty's damn headphones off.
Posted Image


Exterminate all rational thought, that is the conclusion I have come to
0

#14 User is offline   MoMilk1991 Icon

  • LB Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,946
  • Joined: 10-March 07
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:03 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 29 December 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

he only threw like 15 times in the 1ts half. i think he was 13 for 15 and a TD and like 120 yards. and we were dominating the game. we should have came out in the 2nd half and played exactly the same way we did in the 1st half. we were down 3 but thats becuase a missed FG and a luck 99 yard play by the giants. it should have been 10-3 us at teh half sitcking to the balanced offense would have been fine but he went pass crazy


You are wrong there. Sanchez threw 28 times in the first half. I actually looked up what the record for pass attempts in a game is because of that.
Posted Image
0

#15 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,753
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

View PostMoMilk1991, on 29 December 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

You are wrong there. Sanchez threw 28 times in the first half. I actually looked up what the record for pass attempts in a game is because of that.


then in that case i take it back. maybe the giants D just adjusted to what we were doing and our offense didn't as usual. anyway if we would have won nobody would have cared how many times we threw
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#16 User is offline   Mr_Jet Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,314
  • Joined: 31-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:35 PM

View PostJetsman05, on 29 December 2011 - 05:14 PM, said:

And someone who clearly thinks so highly of Norv Turner. I mean, it's a match made in heaven after Rex's endearing comments about him before the SD game this season.


Please that was just media pregame hype more than anything else. All that was, was something ESPN could use to fill up a segment of airtime NFL Live and their other shows. It's not like it was Belicheat and Mangini in their first game after Spygate. Rex's comments were more of an insult to the Jets players than it was towards Norv Turner IMO. I really doubt a grown man who's been in the league as long as Turner has been is going to be as butt hurt over those comments like the media and some others would have you believe. I don't see Turner declining a paycheck after getting fired all because of some statement Rex Ryan made before a game. I really doubt Turner was all that upset over those comments, if at all. He's shown no indication that he was upset over what Rex said. Even after Rex beat his team yet again.

View PostFlyHiJets, on 01 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're the scumbag that thinks everyone should kiss the as$es of a bunch of criminals but I'm a dumbass. Yeah okay douchebag. Go give some illegal wetback or Revis another blowjob. But then again.....don't you live in an entirely different country but yet think you can tell us how to live? Go fvck yourself little boy. You're likely still living with mommy & daddy. Pu$$y.


View Postazjetfan, on 02 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

There are a few things I have realized about Mr. Jet over a few topics.

1) He is a racist. By constantly using race as a battling tool.
2) He is an extreme Liberal. If you are on either extreme you are probabaly more wrong than right.
3) He is one of those people who will never admit fault, error or defeat.
4)His life sucks and he takes it out on people who don't share in his views.
0

#17 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

  • 2008 Best Insider Award
  • Icon
  • View blog
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 31,145
  • Joined: 02-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:---
  • Interests:Hardcore Jets & Knicks fan - Gym rat - health and nutrition - family man and proud father.

    Twitter: @NYJETSFANCOM

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:44 PM

If Norv Turner is the Jets O.C I'll resign as a mod. That's how sure I am. lol
0

#18 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 23,753
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:59 PM

View PostS-Dubb, on 29 December 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

If Norv Turner is the Jets O.C I'll resign as a mod. That's how sure I am. lol


can i have your place lol
Get it done MT
Posted Image
0

#19 User is offline   Jetsman05 Icon

  • Patron Saint of ESPNU
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 7,050
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Carolina
  • Interests:Jets, Gators, Liverpool, Lightning

  • NFL Team:

Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:43 PM

View PostS-Dubb, on 29 December 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

If Norv Turner is the Jets O.C I'll resign as a mod. That's how sure I am. lol


If Norv Turner becomes the Jets O.C I'll become your new best friend on the forum.
0

#20 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

  • Assistant Head Coach
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,489
  • Joined: 28-November 05
  • Gender:Male

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 30 December 2011 - 09:22 AM

View PostS-Dubb, on 29 December 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

If Norv Turner is the Jets O.C I'll resign as a mod. That's how sure I am. lol


The fact that you're against this makes me think he'll be the perfect OC.
0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users