[S-Dubb]

Just saying.

Also one could make the argument that it's been Rex Ryans defenses that have gotten the Ravens (year 1) and the Jets to back to back AFC championship games.It sure has hell wasn't neither teams offense.

Even through all the turmoil.

IN REX I TRUST

[Jetsfan115]

rex isn't my issue. i believe in rex and everyhting he does. my issue is the offense is pathetic. and not just the execution where you can blame players but i mean basics like getting the plays in on time and communicating the plays and making sure everyione knows the snap cout. etc etc. things that high school kids can do correctly we have million dolar athletes who cna't do it. WTF?

[A1elbow]

Rex's lack of involvement in the offense should be more worrying to people than it seems to be. To be an elite coach in the league you need to either be able to put your hand in every situation or have someone running the side of the ball you don't "specialise" in who is top of their class.

Ryan failed this year as a HC in several ways, but one of them was definitely not being more involved with his offense. I felt at the beginning of the year that our offense was less talented and would only be better through maturation of players and that is how it played out; I think Ryan vastly overestimated what they brought in on that side of the ball.

[S-Dubb]

A1elbow, on 04 January 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Rex's lack of involvement in the offense should be more worrying to people than it seems to be. To be an elite coach in the league you need to either be able to put your hand in every situation or have someone running the side of the ball you don't "specialise" in who is top of their class.

Ryan failed this year as a HC in several ways, but one of them was definitely not being more involved with his offense. I felt at the beginning of the year that our offense was less talented and would only be better through maturation of players and that is how it played out; I think Ryan vastly overestimated what they brought in on that side of the ball.

You do know that this is his first stint as a head coach right? he's still learning the ropes. If it were another coach and all this was going on then yea I'd say were f*cked but you know what? this is Rex. He'll be able to control that locker room. With time everything will die. All of this rhetoric were hearing will die, then he'll be able to move in and do what he does.

Yes Rex should have been involved more. Rex had too much confidence in Schotty. Rex was however sitting in on offensive team meetings so don't get it twisted like he did nothing with the offense.

[Jetsfan115]

S-Dubb, on 04 January 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

You do know that this is his first stint as a head coach right? he's still learning the ropes. If it were another coach and all this was going on then yea I'd say were f*cked but you know what? this is Rex. He'll be able to control that locker room. With time everything will die. All of this rhetoric were hearing will die, then he'll be able to move in and do what he does.

Yes Rex should have been involved more. Rex had too much confidence in Schotty. Rex was however sitting in on offensive team meetings so don't get it twisted like he did nothing with the offense.

winning cures everyhting

[Jetsfan0099]

I'm still buying into Rex as our HC, I think he'll get things corrected this offseason and we will be back in the playoffs next year.

[S-Dubb]

Jetsfan0099, on 04 January 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'm still buying into Rex as our HC, I think he'll get things corrected this offseason and we will be back in the playoffs next year.

Rex is to prideful to go out like this. Honestly I worry more about Sanchez being the guy then I worry about Rex fully losing the lockerroom. Even as bad as things have gotten I truely believe Rex will have this team all warm and fuzzy by the time OTA's start.

[A1elbow]

S-Dubb, on 04 January 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

You do know that this is his first stint as a head coach right? he's still learning the ropes. If it were another coach and all this was going on then yea I'd say were f*cked but you know what? this is Rex. He'll be able to control that locker room. With time everything will die. All of this rhetoric were hearing will die, then he'll be able to move in and do what he does.

Yes Rex should have been involved more. Rex had too much confidence in Schotty. Rex was however sitting in on offensive team meetings so don't get it twisted like he did nothing with the offense.

I don't hold things against Ryan that everyone knew he would struggle with. Him still working on being more involved in the offense is worrying, but I think coaches should be given enough time to prove themselves* and that is acceptable. But Ryan was supposed to be this great football motivator and be so close to his players, but it is coming out in all sorts of ways that while he might be their buddy, he didn't know how they really felt or had much insight into his team. Considering that, yeah, I do think the team needs to be long terms planning for a new coach. I don't have any faith in Ryan because he is immature and has shown a total lack of willingness to address issues that arise.

*funny though that I'm sure a lot of people saying Ryan needs time didn't feel that was true with Mangini.

[Jetsfan0099]

A1elbow, on 05 January 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I don't hold things against Ryan that everyone knew he would struggle with. Him still working on being more involved in the offense is worrying, but I think coaches should be given enough time to prove themselves* and that is acceptable. But Ryan was supposed to be this great football motivator and be so close to his players, but it is coming out in all sorts of ways that while he might be their buddy, he didn't know how they really felt or had much insight into his team. Considering that, yeah, I do think the team needs to be long terms planning for a new coach. I don't have any faith in Ryan because he is immature and has shown a total lack of willingness to address issues that arise.

*funny though that I'm sure a lot of people saying Ryan needs time didn't feel that was true with Mangini.

Rex has done more than Mangini.

[A1elbow]

Jetsfan0099, on 05 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Rex has done more than Mangini.

Rex took over a better team than Mangini. Mangini's first year's we lost our best pass rusher because of the previous coach/GM tandem's stupidity (and, in all fairness, Abe's ego/greed).

His first year we drafted two bro-bowl players and Eric Smith, who Ryan still uses as a starter. In three seasons we drafted Revis, Mangold, Ferguson, Kellar and Harris. Since he has been gone we have drafted...Mark (who it seems most people want gone), Greene (again, who most people want gone), Slauson (who no one likes), Duccasse (nuff said), and this past draft's guys (I think Wilkerson and Kerley have shown some promise, but then again I like Greene and Sanchez).

Now, of course Mangini was here when V.G. was drafted, but I think it is funny that the coach who was here when the majority of players people on this board actually like "didn't do as much" as the coach who has been here during a period where we drafted a litany of players people think suck. This is just really a matter of perspective, because I think since Tannenbaum took over we have drafted above the league average.

It it amazes me this notion Ryan has been so much more successful, certainly and in some ways fairly because of the AFC Championship games, but not at all fairly in terms of what was in place when each coach took over. Mangini was 23-25 and Ryan is 28-20. If Favre is healthy all season Mangini is likely closer to 25 or 26 wins and has two playoff appearences and is just whatever playoff results behind Ryan in terms of record. The talent that was brought in while he was coach was better.

[Jetsfan0099]

A1elbow, on 05 January 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Rex took over a better team than Mangini. Mangini's first year's we lost our best pass rusher because of the previous coach/GM tandem's stupidity (and, in all fairness, Abe's ego/greed).

His first year we drafted two bro-bowl players and Eric Smith, who Ryan still uses as a starter. In three seasons we drafted Revis, Mangold, Ferguson, Kellar and Harris. Since he has been gone we have drafted...Mark (who it seems most people want gone), Greene (again, who most people want gone), Slauson (who no one likes), Duccasse (nuff said), and this past draft's guys (I think Wilkerson and Kerley have shown some promise, but then again I like Greene and Sanchez).

Now, of course Mangini was here when V.G. was drafted, but I think it is funny that the coach who was here when the majority of players people on this board actually like "didn't do as much" as the coach who has been here during a period where we drafted a litany of players people think suck. This is just really a matter of perspective, because I think since Tannenbaum took over we have drafted above the league average.

It it amazes me this notion Ryan has been so much more successful, certainly and in some ways fairly because of the AFC Championship games, but not at all fairly in terms of what was in place when each coach took over. Mangini was 23-25 and Ryan is 28-20. If Favre is healthy all season Mangini is likely closer to 25 or 26 wins and has two playoff appearences and is just whatever playoff results behind Ryan in terms of record. The talent that was brought in while he was coach was better.

You can't go by the drafting for the HCs, we have the same GM and scouts that do most of the work for this. Brick was a easy call to draft 4th overall that year with who was on the board and our huge need for OL talent, Mangold was a easy call as well. Both were highly rated prospects coming out. Trading up for Revis was great, I remember reading how Terry Bradway was big on him and did a lot of the scouting for him. Then his 3rd draft he gets Vernon Gholston 6th overall which was a huge set back as we failed to add that pass rusher we need. Dustin Keller is solid but besides that not much more.

I remember our DBs playing terrible in the 2008 season, garbage QBs were throwing all over us. So what if Favre was injured, we had a great RB tandem with Thomas Jones who had 1,312 yards 4.5 YPC, 13 TDs. And Leon Washington who was under utilized. Mangini also had a healthy Kris Jenkins that season.

As a coach Rex is much better, he took the same team pretty much that was awful on defense and turned them into the #1 defense in football and went to the AFC championship game with a rookie QB. Mangini had a future HOFer at QB. How about losing to the Patriots early in the season 19-10 when they had Matt Cassel at QB? Team played scared. Mangini didn't have the guys believing they could win. Rex has made players better.

And our drafts have not been that bad, especially since we have been drafting at the end of the 1st round with Rex. We haven't hit on a difference maker yet.

2009-Mark Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson all starting
2010-Kyle Wilson (improved a lot this season), Vlad Ducasse (probably a bust but its not like Mangini didn't have busts like Kellen Clemens in round 2), Joe McKnight could be a weapon John Conner starter

2011-Muhammad Wilkerson (starter), Kenrick Ellis (jury is still out), Jeremy Kerley (looks like a player), Bilal Powell (who knows), Greg McEloy (could be a good backup).

[A1elbow]

The Ryan-apologist line continues: you can't blame him for anything because all he knows is defense.


I also love how people always tell me the HC has nothing to do with drafting. Yeah, all HCs take a two month vacation and the Gm drafts without consideration of his HC at all.

Quote

Dustin Keller is solid but besides that not much more.

Yeah, four pro-bowlers (and an All-Pro) in three years plus Keller but not much more. Pretty average drafts by most team's standards.

[Jetsfan0099]

A1elbow, on 05 January 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

The Ryan-apologist line continues: you can't blame him for anything because all he knows is defense.


I also love how people always tell me the HC has nothing to do with drafting. Yeah, all HCs take a two month vacation and the Gm drafts without consideration of his HC at all.



Yeah, four pro-bowlers (and an All-Pro) in three years plus Keller but not much more. Pretty average drafts by most team's standards.

I didn't say the HC has nothing to do with drafting, but that Tannenbaum has the final say. The scouting department has a lot of say with drafting. I think Rex says he gets to choose 1 player that he wants each year. The scouts go off of what fits the system Rex wants but its not like Rex and Mangini are finding these guys alone. There are a lot of voices being heard and trying to say that Mangini is a better drafter wouldn't be fair since his last year here our draft had Vernon Gholston.

[S-Dubb]

A1elbow, on 05 January 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

The Ryan-apologist line continues: you can't blame him for anything because all he knows is defense.


I also love how people always tell me the HC has nothing to do with drafting. Yeah, all HCs take a two month vacation and the Gm drafts without consideration of his HC at all.



Yeah, four pro-bowlers (and an All-Pro) in three years plus Keller but not much more. Pretty average drafts by most team's standards.

A1 you need to calm down bud.

You wanna know what the Jets did year two with Rex? they gave him 1 pick. You know who it was? John Conner. Rex has somewhat of a say and everything they do is COLLECTIVE but it's a collective decision about the team. Again you seem to be fixated at pointing the finger at an individual and I'm sorry it doesn't work like that. When it comes to the draft there is a brain trust of 10 to 12 people involved in the process. Rex doesn't really have much leverage. They guy is coaching an NFL football team from basically August to January, when does he have time to look at draft boards? That's what a scouting department is for. Like I said, Rex and most "newer" head coaches have minimal say. Mike Tannenbaum signs off on all draftee's but again it's collective.

I know you're not fond of Rex and that's fine but stop reaching.

[S-Dubb]

Jetsfan0099, on 05 January 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

I didn't say the HC has nothing to do with drafting, but that Tannenbaum has the final say. The scouting department has a lot of say with drafting. I think Rex says he gets to choose 1 player that he wants each year. The scouts go off of what fits the system Rex wants but its not like Rex and Mangini are finding these guys alone. There are a lot of voices being heard and trying to say that Mangini is a better drafter wouldn't be fair since his last year here our draft had Vernon Gholston.

Bro, check my post. I didn't even see yours before posting mine. Too funny

[A1elbow]

Ah once again, there is no coach in the league less involved in their team to the fans than Rex Ryan (doesn't do much in drafting, doesn't do much on offense or special teams, doesn't know his players, doesn't call the defense...) but has so much loyalty. I don't even dislike the guy that much, it's just that every time I criticise him I'm told how he wasn't really involved in that aspect of football.

It amazes me. I hope when anyone refers to him as the head coach from now on they make sure it is never in capitals, because no other coach seems less entitled to having it that way.

[S-Dubb]

A1elbow, on 06 January 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

Ah once again, there is no coach in the league less involved in their team to the fans than Rex Ryan (doesn't do much in drafting, doesn't do much on offense or special teams, doesn't know his players, doesn't call the defense...) but has so much loyalty. I don't even dislike the guy that much, it's just that every time I criticise him I'm told how he wasn't really involved in that aspect of football.

It amazes me. I hope when anyone refers to him as the head coach from now on they make sure it is never in capitals, because no other coach seems less entitled to having it that way.

So according to we don't need offensive coordinators, special teams coaches or D. Coordinators because the head coach is supposed to do everything. Right ok gotcha.

There is something you desperately need to take into consideration. Mike Westoff is a pioneer on special teams and has been close to getting a head coaching job a few times. In league circles (say what you will) Brian Schottenheimer is noted for being an excellent coach and head coach material. Bill Callahan OL coach (but involved with offense) has a plethora of experience so you know what. I don't blame Rex for not getting overly involved. Even if we was overly involved how much influence could he really have. A1 seriously.. think about it. It's not about delusional fans "covering" for Rex. Most of it is common sense.

Rex will be the first guy on the team to say he's a fault, that he's the coach and if falls on him. We've been to 2 ACP champ games, GM Mike T decimated this team and played the "pull and plug" game with to many piece of this team.

I just think your not looking at it from a more broadened point of view.

Everything makes sense. To me anyways.

[Jetsfan0099]

Mike McCarthy a offensive guy that couldn't win a championship until he hired a good defensive mind to run his defense with Dom Capers. Sean Payton a offensive guy had to hire a good defensive mind to win a championship with the Saints, Greg Williams.

So why can't Rex need a good offensive mind to run his offense? Bill Belichick hasn't won a championship since having Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel as his coordinators. Coordinators matter.

[S-Dubb]

Jetsfan0099, on 06 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Mike McCarthy a offensive guy that couldn't win a championship until he hired a good defensive mind to run his defense with Dom Capers. Sean Payton a offensive guy had to hire a good defensive mind to win a championship with the Saints, Greg Williams.

So why can't Rex need a good offensive mind to run his offense? Bill Belichick hasn't won a championship since having Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel as his coordinators. Coordinators matter.

Good point 99. Same as Sean Payton going and getting a solid defensive coordinator in Greg Williams. You think Sean Payton is heavily involved with the defense? Hell no.

[SokeSleezy]

i got not problem with Rex or Sanchez for that matter...yea it sucks we're out of the playoffs,but hey,we cant win them all...and for all the heat their gettin especially Sanchez,i dont think either is the real problem...leadership yea and more importantly the lack of offense is whats hurting us....Sanchez is an easy target,he's the face of the franchise since he came here,yea he's a game manager but thats what his OC trained him to be,he's obviously got the tools and the arm to make the big plays,but when ur being held down,and always checkin down cuz ur scared of getting hit all the damm time thanks to the crappy oline this season,its easy to see why us NY'ers would immediately be calling for his head...Shit when's the last time the Colts called for Mannings head and that dude always tanks in the playoffs,one bad season aint gonna kill us...we just gotta hope we turn things around next year..