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Hayden Smith Signs With Jets Rugby player projects as TE

#21 User is offline   S-Dubb Icon

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:01 PM

View Postsantana, on 03 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

He looks like witten

But you are right you need a legit qb to make a TE a somebody


Keller might never have one.
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#22 User is offline   A1elbow Icon

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

View PostS-Dubb, on 04 April 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Keller might never have one.


Keller is a nobody. If we had Brady or Manning then he would be a nobody who had a great second or third year and then signed a disgusting contract with Washington and ended up on a milk carton.
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:11 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 04 April 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Keller is a nobody. If we had Brady or Manning then he would be a nobody who had a great second or third year and then signed a disgusting contract with Washington and ended up on a milk carton.


I disagree.

Give the guy a thrower. Put him with any of the top QB's in the league he'd be a beast. He's a miss match nightmare. People underrate him because he's not in an can utilize him correctly, and he doesn't have a QB that can get him the football enough.
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:56 PM

View PostS-Dubb, on 04 April 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I disagree.

Give the guy a thrower. Put him with any of the top QB's in the league he'd be a beast. He's a miss match nightmare. People underrate him because he's not in an can utilize him correctly, and he doesn't have a QB that can get him the football enough.


I criticize him because he never gets open and people say he would be elite elsewhere. Well, if you have to be in the right situation, I don't consider you elite. Tony Gonzalez played in multiple offenses and now on multiple teams and looked good. That is a great TE. Much like what people say about Sanchez, if you have to have a perfect storm, you aren't that special.

When I watched the Jets I never saw Keller getting open. His catches he was mostly covered. If he couldn't get open sometimes, I don't see what is so special about him.


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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:59 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 04 April 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

I criticize him because he never gets open and people say he would be elite elsewhere. Well, if you have to be in the right situation, I don't consider you elite. Tony Gonzalez played in multiple offenses and now on multiple teams and looked good. That is a great TE. Much like what people say about Sanchez, if you have to have a perfect storm, you aren't that special.

When I watched the Jets I never saw Keller getting open. His catches he was mostly covered. If he couldn't get open sometimes, I don't see what is so special about him.


I agree for the most part. Keller is no where near the top 5 TEs in the league but by TE standards he is a solid catcher.
I believe the TE really depends on the play of the QB. Watching Favre utilize keller was very different to how we have seen keller being used the past three years.
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 05 April 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

I criticize him because he never gets open and people say he would be elite elsewhere. Well, if you have to be in the right situation, I don't consider you elite. Tony Gonzalez played in multiple offenses and now on multiple teams and looked good. That is a great TE. Much like what people say about Sanchez, if you have to have a perfect storm, you aren't that special.

When I watched the Jets I never saw Keller getting open. His catches he was mostly covered. If he couldn't get open sometimes, I don't see what is so special about him.


Keller's greatest weakness to me is the fact he's so inconsistent over the course of a game. He'll start off with two or three catches before going missing for the next two and a half quarters before reappearing as the fourth quarter winds down.

With Smith, it will be interesting to see how he translates. He should be good with the ball in his hands, but it's route running, reading defences and catching in traffic that will be most difficult for him. When you receive the ball in rugby, the entire defence is generally still in front of you because of the need to pass backwards.
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:13 PM

in 4 years he's never missed a game, never had under 500 yards, and had 850 yards last year and 65 catches. both of which were team high. how can you say he is a nobody?

anyway i'd rather us get someone who can play OLB and rush the passer then a TE
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:37 PM

The TE position is evolving faster than defenses in many ways and the position is overall producing better stats than they used to. Two or three TEs used to be considered solid receivers, now at least half the teams have someone who could fit the bill. But what a good receiving TE is needs to be redefined

Fourteen of the top fifty receivers were TEs last year. In 01 there were four. In 02, four. In 03, four. 91? Four. 92...four.

In 01 seven TEs went over 500 yards. Last year there were twenty. Two years ago there were twenty-two.

The position can no longer be judged on being anything special because you broke 500 yards like TEs used to be. Keller is one of a number of TEs who produce good stats, but he isn't elite at his position. TEs still block and he isn't good at that. His receiving stats, while solid, are not exemplary.

The guy is below average in half the job and just slightly above average in the other half. That is what makes a mediocre player.
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 05 April 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

The guy is below average in half the job and just slightly above average in the other half. That is what makes a mediocre player.


The winning quote, right here!
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostA1elbow, on 05 April 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

The TE position is evolving faster than defenses in many ways and the position is overall producing better stats than they used to. Two or three TEs used to be considered solid receivers, now at least half the teams have someone who could fit the bill. But what a good receiving TE is needs to be redefined

Fourteen of the top fifty receivers were TEs last year. In 01 there were four. In 02, four. In 03, four. 91? Four. 92...four.

In 01 seven TEs went over 500 yards. Last year there were twenty. Two years ago there were twenty-two.

The position can no longer be judged on being anything special because you broke 500 yards like TEs used to be. Keller is one of a number of TEs who produce good stats, but he isn't elite at his position. TEs still block and he isn't good at that. His receiving stats, while solid, are not exemplary.

The guy is below average in half the job and just slightly above average in the other half. That is what makes a mediocre player.


who do you consider elite? what ETs can you say are hands down overall better? graham might be the best recieving one but he cna't block for shit. Gronk is probably the best overall TE in the NFL right there with whitten. both are great blockers and elite WRs so those 3 i'll say are better then keller and are elite. outside of them who is better then keller?
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 05 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

who do you consider elite? what ETs can you say are hands down overall better? graham might be the best recieving one but he cna't block for shit. Gronk is probably the best overall TE in the NFL right there with whitten. both are great blockers and elite WRs so those 3 i'll say are better then keller and are elite. outside of them who is better then keller?


As a receiver, he is probably top ten. As a blocker he is not even close to any number of TEs. Even as a receiver he has to compete with Gronkowski, Graham, Finley, Witten, Gates...and a few others. Some of those guys are clearly better blockers than him. If he isn't even an average blocking TE, how am I supposed to consider him better overall than a true explosive receiving TE like Vernon Davis or Jermichael Finley?

Maybe Keller is top twenty as a TE, but he isn't top three or five by any stretch of the imagination. He could go somewhere with a great line where he never had to block but rarely and they threw the ball a lot and succeed and look great, but anywhere he has to block he is going to be obviously not special.
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:24 PM

He's an H-Back, not a TE.
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