[Smedsthejet]

So the (presumably) final Bounty-gate punishments have been announced, and ex-Jet Jonathan Vilma gets suspended for a year without pay. Meanwhile, Anthony Hargrove gets benched for 8 games, Will Smith 4 and Scott Fujita 3.

Vilma's punishment does not seem commensurate to the others, although he was the key player heading up the scheme. But whether he'll appeal it and get support from the NFLPA is another question. Can the players' union really justify supporting another player who has been found guilty of participating in a scheme where injuring other members was the goal? You'd hope that Goodell will consider being flexible and potentially reduce the punishment based on Vilma's behaviour during the ban; presumably there will be meetings between the two over the course of Vilma's suspension, and if he shows enough remorse (the same with Gregg Williams and, maybe, Payton) you would think he could be up for early reinstatement.

I guess it sucks to be a Saints fan right now. But at least there's some closure.

Whether this is a tipping point for the players that sees them come out expressing their discontent with Goodell's discipline policy more often is something to look out for though. Thursday night it was all hugs and high fives with the first round picks invited to the draft. Less than a week later and the Commissioner slams down his iron fist again. Two-faced Roger?!

[The Reverend]

Roger Goodell should just get it over with and slap a swastika on the NFL logo.

[azjetfan]

I am OK with it. I do not know all the facts but from what I have heard he was a major piece to making the incentive. Basicly he was paying to knock players out of games possibly seasons.

[azjetfan]

Although, Beli was caught cheating red handed and was treated much more tactfully.

[MoMilk1991]

azjetfan, on 02 May 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Although, Beli was caught cheating red handed and was treated much more tactfully.

Goodell's entire time as commish has had a focus on player safety though.

[azjetfan]

MoMilk1991, on 02 May 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Goodell's entire time as commish has had a focus on player safety though.

Good Point

[Jetsfan115]

azjetfan, on 02 May 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Although, Beli was caught cheating red handed and was treated much more tactfully.

Saints didn't cheat, what they did do was purposely set out to injure other players. All goddell has cared about is player safety and this was his chance to make an example

[Mr_Jet]

I don't disagree with the suspensions but I do think it's ridiculous that Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner. There needs to be some sort of appeals court within the NFL. A court or board made up of like a former coach, former players, and the NFLPA president, and Goodell himself. A NFL version of the Supreme Court. A suspension like this one just doesn't punish the Saints and their players. It's going to punish the Packers and Browns too since Hargrove plays for the Packers and the Fujita plays for the Browns now and those two teams had nothing to do with this.

[azjetfan]

Mr_Jet, on 02 May 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I don't disagree with the suspensions but I do think it's ridiculous that Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner. There needs to be some sort of appeals court within the NFL. A court or board made up of like a former coach, former players, and the NFLPA president, and Goodell himself. A NFL version of the Supreme Court. A suspension like this one just doesn't punish the Saints and their players. It's going to punish the Packers and Browns too since Hargrove plays for the Packers and the Fujita plays for the Browns now and those two teams had nothing to do with this.

Yea I agree. Maybe like a board made up of former players, owners ect.. I get the reason why they give him the power and I am sure he thinks he is doing the right thing but one man should not have all that power. I wonder how he liked all the boos at the draft?

[Smedsthejet]

Mr_Jet, on 02 May 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I don't disagree with the suspensions but I do think it's ridiculous that Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner. There needs to be some sort of appeals court within the NFL. A court or board made up of like a former coach, former players, and the NFLPA president, and Goodell himself. A NFL version of the Supreme Court. A suspension like this one just doesn't punish the Saints and their players. It's going to punish the Packers and Browns too since Hargrove plays for the Packers and the Fujita plays for the Browns now and those two teams had nothing to do with this.

Agreed that there needs to be an arbitration panel independent of the Commissioner to deal with these kind of things, which are serious cases that deserve a group of people without a vested interest to oversee them.
I don't disagree with the players being suspended either, but Vilma's punishment seems excessive compared to those handed out to the other three players, while reports on ESPN.com suggest that other players involved - some who put up cash for the specific bounties - have gotten off free primarily because they are not big names. If true, you can't have show trials and punishments need to be consistent otherwise you won't convince people that justice has been served.

[ROBJETS]

Darren Sharper said he was pissed about it because when he was with the Saints players were never told that the Saints org had been warned about the bounty programs.

I think that that is a stupid excuse personally. For one the players would never openly admit if they ever were told about the warnings anyway (I sure as hell wouldn't admit to it if I were in there shoes)and two it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that having a bounty for injuring opposing players is wrong in every aspect. Its basic common sense.

If I set up a reward system for people in my neighborhood to try to injure someone or maybe a group of people they should have enough of an IQ to know its just as wrong for them to try to injure someone for money as it is for me setting up a bounty program.

I thought Tim Hasselbecks argument was totally idiotic about if a soldier was in the military and was told by a superior to do something that was unethical or against human rights that the soldier would blindly follow it without knowing its wrong. If things were brought to light the soldier would face penalties for his actions just like the superior.


They deserved what they got period.You play with fire you get burned.

If I were a player on an opposing team and was taken out of the game by injury by the Saints during the bounty period Id have a hell of a lawsuit against the NFL, The Saints org, the coaches, and all the players named.

[A1elbow]

If I were the Saints I'd make Goodell bring out hard evidence that they were "looking to injure" players and take them out of games. Guys intend to hit hard every game and their teams pay them to do so.

The whole bounty thing is Goodell BS to cover up...where is gmany?

[FlyHiJets]

The fact that Hitler, I mean Goodell is handing out suspensions is a good thing, BUT the way he has gone about it, is ridiculous in that he deliberately waited until AFTER the draft is bull$hit. The Saints as an organization NEED to appeal these suspensions as a whole in that they distinctly put the team at a competitive disadvantage because the "commish" purposely waited until after the draft to cause holes in the team knowing full well what his intentions were prior to the draft & not affording the team the opportunity to address these holes via the draft. I understand the need for player safety & all but this is the NFL. Not the lingerie league.

The players being suspended should demand evidence that they were out to injure anyone rather than just make plays. Vilma being suspended for an entire season without pay? What evidence was used to demand such a harsh penalty?

[A1elbow]

FlyHiJets, on 02 May 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

The fact that Hitler, I mean Goodell is handing out suspensions is a good thing, BUT the way he has gone about it, is ridiculous in that he deliberately waited until AFTER the draft is bull$hit. The Saints as an organization NEED to appeal these suspensions as a whole in that they distinctly put the team at a competitive disadvantage because the "commish" purposely waited until after the draft to cause holes in the team knowing full well what his intentions were prior to the draft & not affording the team the opportunity to address these holes via the draft. I understand the need for player safety & all but this is the NFL. Not the lingerie league.

The players being suspended should demand evidence that they were out to injure anyone rather than just make plays. Vilma being suspended for an entire season without pay? What evidence was used to demand such a harsh penalty?

Vilma absolutely needs to appeal. He basically just got a $3.5 million dollar fine. f***ing ridiculous. Goodell single handily makes me like the NFL less. The game is much worse for having him as emperor.

[Mr_Jet]

A1elbow, on 02 May 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

If I were the Saints I'd make Goodell bring out hard evidence that they were "looking to injure" players and take them out of games. Guys intend to hit hard every game and their teams pay them to do so.

The whole bounty thing is Goodell BS to cover up...where is gmany?

The players do deserve to at least see the evidence being used against them. That is why I think a 7 or 9 member panel/board/court to oversee an appeal process. A player like Vilma who got a really harsh punishment (IMO deservingly so) should be able to have his "day in court" so to speak. A appeals panel made of well respected guys (possibly a woman also to bring another prospective to things like this) to either uphold the commissioner's punishments or veto the commissioner's decision and make the commissioner either revise it or not punish the player or coach at all.

If I was to pick a group of people to be the NFL's appeals panel I would chose people like this.

Tony Dungy (former player and coach)
Marty Schottenheimer (former player and coach)
Curtis Martin (former player)
Kurt Warner (former player)
Ronnie Lott (former player)
Jack Lambert (former player)
Carmen Policy (former GM)
Ron Wolf (former GM)
Condoleezza Rice (U.S. diplomat, NFL fan)

Goodell would have to give the panel all the evidence he used and then the panel would make their decision from there.

[A1elbow]

Vilma was given one of the harshest punishments ever given. On the other hand, players who knowingly punch (etc) players have gotten as little as a game or just a fine. Jermone Harrison has repeatedly been given fines for hard, but largely, legal hits.

Roger Goodell's punishments are not meant to fit the crime, but to send messages. He gives out punishment as he sees fit to enforce his own personal "laws." This is why the government has three branches with the law-making and law-enforcing branches separate. Judges are not allowed to exceed parameters. He is exceeding what his job allows and it is sad to see the NFLPA roll over repeatedly because they are afraid of appearing to care less about players.

Without the NFL releasing it's alleged research (I say alleged because I think it is highly suspect what the NFL investigates since it seems to solely act in line with Goodell's goals) I can't say exactly if Vilma deserves this steep of a fine. I hope he appeals, because I think outside of real evidence of him seeking to injure players (and I mean injure, not "solid hit" or whatever) there is no justice in this level of punishment.

[XvNukemHighvX]

I don't know I read that all the players involved where given a chance to come forward to the commish and investigators to make statements on their roles in the program. Not a peep came from any of these guys until now. Now that they realized they have been outted they are up in arms about fairness. As far as evidence of injuring people being needed who the hell cares! The fact is they started a pool which bypasses the cap to reward/pay players which is illegal on multiple levels. Whether or not people got hurt is pretty irrelevant as far as punishment goes but player safety is a concern so of course it wil be extreme. Love Vilma to death he was by far my fav Jet when he was here but the dude fucked up and he is lucky to be allowed back to play at all. Didn't the coach who was responsible pretty much get a lifetime ban? Why should the player in charge be any different?

[Smedsthejet]

A1elbow, on 03 May 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Vilma was given one of the harshest punishments ever given. On the other hand, players who knowingly punch (etc) players have gotten as little as a game or just a fine. Jermone Harrison has repeatedly been given fines for hard, but largely, legal hits.

Roger Goodell's punishments are not meant to fit the crime, but to send messages. He gives out punishment as he sees fit to enforce his own personal "laws." This is why the government has three branches with the law-making and law-enforcing branches separate. Judges are not allowed to exceed parameters. He is exceeding what his job allows and it is sad to see the NFLPA roll over repeatedly because they are afraid of appearing to care less about players.

Without the NFL releasing it's alleged research (I say alleged because I think it is highly suspect what the NFL investigates since it seems to solely act in line with Goodell's goals) I can't say exactly if Vilma deserves this steep of a fine. I hope he appeals, because I think outside of real evidence of him seeking to injure players (and I mean injure, not "solid hit" or whatever) there is no justice in this level of punishment.

A three day limit in which to appeal, without getting to see the NFL's (read: Roger Goodell's) reasons for imposing the penalty is also ridiculous.

Again, the players and coaches deserve punishing. But any suspension needs to be reasonable and evidence published.