[Mr_Jet]

Now that Sandusky has been convicted and the NCAA announced it's punishments on Penn State, what do you guys think of it all?

I just think back now to last November the night Paterno was fired and the people taking to the streets to support him. And now according to the former FBI director's report he knew what Sandusky was doing as far back as 1998 and didn't do much of anything to contact the authorities outside of Penn State.

I didn't favor the "death penalty" so I think the punishment the NCAA handed down today was good enough. I'm glad they left it open for the current players to transfer and not have to sit out a year. Taking Paterno's wins from 1998-2011 was a surprise though. But I always thought something was odd about him passing Eddie Robinson and then like a week later the Sandusky shit hit the fan and he gets fired. The grand jury started investigating this back in 2009 and the local newspapers started reporting on this back in the spring of 2011. The AD and Paterno himself had to have known before the start of the 2011 season that this was going to come to light before the end of the 2011 season.

But the cult of personality they (Penn State) made around Paterno went too far. What is even worse is Paterno himself apparently bought into it. Yeah he did a lot of good and raised and donated a lot of money. His players were still true student athletes which was good. But still he should have done more to try to stop Sandusky years ago.

[#73jetsfan]

Kudos to the NCAA committee for putting extreme sanctions on Penn State. It's about time they grew a pair.

[santana]

#73jetsfan, on 23 July 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Kudos to the NCAA committee for putting extreme sanctions on Penn State. It's about time they grew a pair.

Agreed but any idea where that 60million dollar fine is going towards?

[Chaos]

santana, on 23 July 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Agreed but any idea where that 60million dollar fine is going towards?

"Funds from the $60 million sanction - equivalent to the average gross annual revenue of the football program - must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."

http://www.miamihera...60-million.html

[azjetfan]

This seems like a fair punishment. Although I am sure the families don't feel much better.

[SecondHandJets]

Mr_Jet, on 23 July 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Now that Sandusky has been convicted and the NCAA announced it's punishments on Penn State, what do you guys think of it all?

I just think back now to last November the night Paterno was fired and the people taking to the streets to support him. And now according to the former FBI director's report he knew what Sandusky was doing as far back as 1998 and didn't do much of anything to contact the authorities outside of Penn State.

I didn't favor the "death penalty" so I think the punishment the NCAA handed down today was good enough. I'm glad they left it open for the current players to transfer and not have to sit out a year. Taking Paterno's wins from 1998-2011 was a surprise though. But I always thought something was odd about him passing Eddie Robinson and then like a week later the Sandusky shit hit the fan and he gets fired. The grand jury started investigating this back in 2009 and the local newspapers started reporting on this back in the spring of 2011. The AD and Paterno himself had to have known before the start of the 2011 season that this was going to come to light before the end of the 2011 season.

But the cult of personality they (Penn State) made around Paterno went too far. What is even worse is Paterno himself apparently bought into it. Yeah he did a lot of good and raised and donated a lot of money. His players were still true student athletes which was good. But still he should have done more to try to stop Sandusky years ago.

I didn't follow the investigation closely but it's all just fluff. From the little tid bits that I did pick up, yea Paterno "knew" that someone somewhere made accusations about Sandusky, but I also heard that there was an internal investigation back then, and they cleared him. "They" meaning Penn State. I also read that some Government official, forgot what's his exact post, basically took in a ton of donations from the Second Mile and assigned only one investigator to look into Sandusky. I don't know if it was the same investigation as the one in 1998, whether they were concurrent or whether this was an unrelated thing. Either way, what I'm getting at is that as far as I know, Joe Paterno knew of the allegations, but how much he actually knew I'm not sure we know or will ever know.

Either way, I think that demolishing his statues and basically trying to erase him from Penn State and NCAA lore is foolish. I would hate to be a Penn State grad, having looked up to his storied legacy except now it's all gone to shit.

I also think that the NCAA sanctions are asinine. I think they punish the school and the community. In fact, making more victims out of this thing. The proper thing to do would be to chop off the heads of athletic departments, head of whoever did the first investigation, enforce some sort of extra layer of accountability on the trustees and executives.

I'm not forgetting the victims, but this did absolutely nothing for them.

[santana]

Chaos, on 23 July 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

"Funds from the $60 million sanction - equivalent to the average gross annual revenue of the football program - must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."

http://www.miamihera...60-million.html

that's good to know

college football can suck it

[JSOTF]

The problem that I have with this 'scandal' is that in my opinion, the punishment for Penn State is certainly justifyable. As in my opinion, multiple high ranking officals have looked the other way or allowed this to go un-punished for a long, long time. Joe Paterno has been found guilty of this crime, and has been punished more severly then the fuckface that did this to young boys. I have always thought, out of all profesional sports, Joe Paterno may be the coach with the highest integrity. (just from what I saw as a follower of college football) I hope and pray that he tried to do the right thing, but I really hate that it currently seems that he has taken the most punishment in this very sad case.

[Mr_Jet]

JSOTF, on 26 July 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

The problem that I have with this 'scandal' is that in my opinion, the punishment for Penn State is certainly justifyable. As in my opinion, multiple high ranking officals have looked the other way or allowed this to go un-punished for a long, long time. Joe Paterno has been found guilty of this crime, and has been punished more severly then the fuckface that did this to young boys. I have always thought, out of all profesional sports, Joe Paterno may be the coach with the highest integrity. (just from what I saw as a follower of college football) I hope and pray that he tried to do the right thing, but I really hate that it currently seems that he has taken the most punishment in this very sad case.

Do you honestly think Joe Paterno (who has been dead for months) was punished more severely than Jerry Sandusky? I think spending the rest of your life in prison is worse than having a statue taken down and having 14 seasons worth of wins taken away.

The loss of wins and a statue is at most a symbolic punishment. As Paterno said himself before he died, he/they should have did more to stop Sandusky. But I honestly don't think Paterno gave it (the molestations) too much thought before November of last year.

[SecondHandJets]

Mr_Jet, on 26 July 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Do you honestly think Joe Paterno (who has been dead for months) was punished more severely than Jerry Sandusky? I think spending the rest of your life in prison is worse than having a statue taken down and having 14 seasons worth of wins taken away.

The loss of wins and a statue is at most a symbolic punishment. As Paterno said himself before he died, he/they should have did more to stop Sandusky. But I honestly don't think Paterno gave it (the molestations) too much thought before November of last year.

Sandusky committed crimes and is paying his debt to society. In fact, considering that he'll be dead way before the sentences run out, he got off easy.

Paterno LIVED for his legacy. That's the only thing that was important to him. He didn't care about money, otherwise he wouldn't have stayed on at PSU his entire life and more importantly, would not have donated millions of dollars to the program. To forfeit the wins (and thus HIS place in the record books) and tear down his statue is worse than sentencing him to death. The man gave his life to that school and they stripped him off the one thing he lived for before his body turned cold.

[Mr_Jet]

SecondHandJets, on 26 July 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Sandusky committed crimes and is paying his debt to society. In fact, considering that he'll be dead way before the sentences run out, he got off easy.

Paterno LIVED for his legacy. That's the only thing that was important to him. He didn't care about money, otherwise he wouldn't have stayed on at PSU his entire life and more importantly, would not have donated millions of dollars to the program. To forfeit the wins (and thus HIS place in the record books) and tear down his statue is worse than sentencing him to death. The man gave his life to that school and they stripped him off the one thing he lived for before his body turned cold.

And that's the problem, Paterno lived for his legacy and apparently put HIS legacy above the safety of children. Now when it comes to money no he wasn't like a Nick Saban or Urban Meyer jumping from job to job. But he wasn't living paycheck to paycheck either. Paterno had a contract worth millions and pension that will keep his widow and children living VERY comfortably. By the time college football started to make the kind of money it makes now, Paterno was already a senior citizen and likely wouldn't have been hired by another school because of his age anyway.

But putting that aside he has his own self to blame for his legacy being ruined. He could have prevented his legacy from getting tarnished back in 1998 when the e-mails released from the Freeh report shows he was at least aware of Sandusky's "actions" back in 1998. Again he could have prevented his legacy from being tarnished when Mike McQuery went to his house and told Paterno to his face what he saw Sandusky doing to that boy in the showers back in 2002. But he did not follow up after telling the AD. Paterno didn't go to any authority figure outside of Penn State. He could have at anytime between 1998-2009 (the investigation started in 2009) picked up a phone and called the police. Given his position as PSU's head coach he could have called Pennsylvania's attorney general or hell even the governor and told them. Again he didn't. Why? Now that's the answer we'll never know the true answer to because he's dead now. But I hope during those last 2 months of his life he truly realized what he chose to ignore from 1998 to 2011.

If Paterno was truly so concerned about his "legacy" he should have made sure the proper authorities OUTSIDE of the Penn State family knew what Sandusky was up to back in 1998. If he had done that back then, yeah it would have been a story (even though in 1998 Bill and Monica had a firm grip on the headlines) and a black eye on PSU for a while. But they would have recovered. They would not have been on suspension for 4 years, his statue would still be up today, he'd still have those 14 seasons worth of wins, and more importantly every child Jerry Sandusky molested after 1998 would not have been one of his victims.

But having a tarnished legacy still isn't as bad as spending the rest of your life in prison. Especially when the person who has had their legendary legacy tarnished DIED months before he lost his statue and his wins record. When Paterno took his last breath back in January, that statue was still up and he still was the all-time winningest coach. Considering he thought he got to decide when he'd step down as head coach, he probably died thinking the NCAA and PSU wouldn't dare take his wins and statue away. I mean he was f***ing "Joe Pa" for God sakes.

[SecondHandJets]

If he were alive today, the NCAA wouldn't dare take away the wins. Taking away the wins does nothing for the victims. It punishes the players, the school and Paterno. Why was Paterno levied such a punishment? Because he wasn't in the position to defend himself. He is the scape goat. Yes he could've done more, but so could've everyone else. Why did the buck stop with him? Why isn't the AD going to prison? Why didn't McQuery drive down to the police station on campus and tell the police there exactly what he saw? Why does the buck stop with Paterno?

[Mr_Jet]

SecondHandJets, on 26 July 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

If he were alive today, the NCAA wouldn't dare take away the wins. Taking away the wins does nothing for the victims. It punishes the players, the school and Paterno. Why was Paterno levied such a punishment? Because he wasn't in the position to defend himself. He is the scape goat. Yes he could've done more, but so could've everyone else. Why did the buck stop with him? Why isn't the AD going to prison? Why didn't McQuery drive down to the police station on campus and tell the police there exactly what he saw? Why does the buck stop with Paterno?

The buck usually stops with the person at the top and in this case that would be the legendary head football coach who was the face of the program for over 40 years. Yes he wasn't the AD or university's president, but he had been there longer than any of them and it was his football program that was bringing in the millions that built that library and other things that football money built at PSU. When people thought of PSU it wasn't the AD, university president, or a graduate assistant they thought off. It was "Joe Pa." People didn't take to the streets to protest Graham Spanier's firing last November. It was Joe Pa's firing they were protesting as if he were Kim Jong Il. It was Paterno who had that cult of personality around him. So that's why he took the brunt of the heat from the NCAA and PSU this month. And you're probably right they did make him out to be the scapegoat since he's dead now. But dead or alive I think he still would have gotten the brunt of the punishment handed down by PSU and the NCAA. Because he was "Joe Pa" and he was Penn State in everybody's eyes.

Personally I'd like to see the prosecutors go after Curley, Spanier, and McQuery and anybody else who knew what Sandusky was doing and either ignored it or covered it up. But I don't know what the law is in Pennsylvania when it comes to ignoring child sex abuse. If there is even a law currently in the books concerning something like that. The state of Pennsylvania can't make it up as they go along when it comes to things like this unlike the NCAA can and did. So I don't know if the state can go after somebody with criminal charges for ignoring child sex abuse. But after all this it might be something every state legislature might want to consider. But then you have to consider how do you prove somebody knew about another person sexually abusing a child. And one person's definition of child sex abuse might be more strict than the average person's (like breast feeding a baby in a public area). Then you could have people falsely accusing other people of ignoring sex abuse for vengeful reasons that has nothing to do with child sex abuse. Thus hurting a person's reputation when they're not even being accused of committing the abuse themselves. So it's not a problem that can be solved easily.

But Sandusky's victim will likely (if they haven't already) file lawsuits against Penn State, the Paterno estate, Curley, Spanier, McQuery, and go after any money Sandusky has left. So they (the victims) might not get justice criminally from those who ignored Sandusky's abuse, but they'll likely go after them in civil court. The money won't heal the victims (nothing ever really will with something like that), but it'll hurt those who ignored the abuse more than a statue coming down and a 4 year bowl ban will.

[SecondHandJets]

I honestly feel that it is very unfair not only to Paterno, his family and friends but also to every football player who played for him. They took away wins that had little to do with Sandusky. Every football that came through PSU went there because to some degree, they all wanted to play for Joe Pa. To throw a cloak over his legacy the way the NCAA did is to rob everyone of those players of their experiences as well. This was a gross over reaction on the part of the NCAA. They felt they had to make a show. They had to flex their muscle. They levied a hefty fine... that really isn't a big blow to the endowment that the university takes in. The brunt of their punishment was given to the dead HC who was an easy target.

[Mr_Jet]

SecondHandJets, on 27 July 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

I honestly feel that it is very unfair not only to Paterno, his family and friends but also to every football player who played for him. They took away wins that had little to do with Sandusky. Every football that came through PSU went there because to some degree, they all wanted to play for Joe Pa. To throw a cloak over his legacy the way the NCAA did is to rob everyone of those players of their experiences as well. This was a gross over reaction on the part of the NCAA. They felt they had to make a show. They had to flex their muscle. They levied a hefty fine... that really isn't a big blow to the endowment that the university takes in. The brunt of their punishment was given to the dead HC who was an easy target.

It's like that guy on the Van Pelt show said the other day, those players know they won those games. It doesn't matter what the the record books say. We all know who really won those games. The players who played at Penn State between 1998 to 2011 have the memories of those games and they'll continue to tell the same stories about those games that they told before they were taken out of the record books. I saw almost every second of Penn State's win over Michigan State back in 2005. I know who really won that game. Now that it's been wiped from the record book I doubt any of the 2005 Spartans are going to go around reminiscing about their win* versus PSU that year.

Plus like I said this is something that could have been avoided back in 1998 if somebody at Penn State had been more proactive about turning Sandusky in. It's their own fault. I find it hard to believe that between 1998 to 2009 that in never once occurred to Paterno, Spanier, or Curley that one of these boys were going to talk to their parents and the police about what Sandusky was doing to them. It HAD to have. They had to have known at some point at least one boy was going to talk and what Sandusky was doing (sometimes right there on the campus) was going to come to light. None of this should have come as a surprise to Paterno, Spanier, Curley, or McQuery. Especially considering Sandusky did what he did as long as he did probably going as far back as the 1960s. They could have prevented the record book from being wiped out if they would have just spoke up. They CHOSE not to, now they're paying the price. It sucks for the players who played at PSU between 1998-2011, but bad things happen to innocent people sometimes. Life sucks sometimes. But they know they won those games. We just got to focus on not letting something like this happen again.

But just think about if the NCAA and PSU did nothing. That would have been even worse. It was only a matter of time before some drunk kid was going to do something to that statue. And those wins IMO were already hollow wins anyway. Paterno should have been fired after the 2004 season after Penn State had 4 out of 5 losing seasons. He wasn't going on recruiting trips anymore, and his assistant coaches were doing much of the work anyway. He was just a figure head by 1998. Probably earlier than that. The last few years it was all about that record anyway.

[JSOTF]

I knew I should have stayed out of this post. I dont mean to cause an argument with anyone, I know this is a very touchy topic. Sorry to all that have a different opinion than mine.

[Mr_Jet]

JSOTF, on 27 July 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

I knew I should have stayed out of this post. I dont mean to cause an argument with anyone, I know this is a very touchy topic. Sorry to all that have a different opinion than mine.

We weren't arguing. Were we? It didn't feel like it to me. If we all agreed all the time there would be no discussion.

[Smedsthejet]

To me the scandal is yet another example of a big, powerful body trying to cover up an employee's dreadful misdeeds in order to save face. Again though - as is the case with scandals in Britain regarding phone hacking and Barclays and a number of other banks fixing interest rates - by failing to act responsibly and seeking to protect the image of the company (or in this case the university) things have only been made much, much worse.
Paterno certainly deserves to be damned for his failure to report what he knew when he first heard about allegations Sandusky was abusing children. Think how many kids could have been spared the trauma of what that evil man did to them had officials at Penn State, including Paterno, informed the police at that point.
If any lesson can be learned from the whole scandal, it is that people should take responsibility and not keep something as serious as this quiet in order so that they can protect their own and their company's image. What Sandusky did was disgusting. But what Penn State officials did was shameful too.