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Jets win 3-1. Beat dolphins so bad that philbin isnt allowed back from england.
Jetsman05 Icon : (07 October 2015 - 06:30 AM) Rob you're brutal
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:30 PM) Who should I start this week in fantasy football? Its a PPR league. I can start 3 of the WRs Edelman-/D-Thomas/Mike Evans/James Jones
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:30 PM) Edelman and Thomas are must start
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:31 PM) So do I start Evans against Jax or James Jones vs STL
Jetsfan115 Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:45 PM) jones. winston likes jackson more then evans
RetireChrebet Icon : (08 October 2015 - 01:47 PM) My two year old daughter is less manic and is able to maintain her composure much better than someone we know here ....
azjetfan Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:07 PM) Dolphins have also fired their DC
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:24 PM) I am composed. 115 and I may see things differently but he has never pissed me off. He is just trying to make his point of view and I mine nothing more
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:25 PM) I just feel the rule is a very bad rule to give the offense the ball back for losing the ball in the endzone because of a batted ball and feel the NFL is far to offense firendly these days thats all
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:27 PM) I know many agree with that. I get that many changes have been made to limit things like brain damage and other injuries some season ending and career ending but defenses cant play hard like they used to and pathetic calls on defenses have ruinbed many games.
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:29 PM) Thats why brought up the Jets Fish game. The balls were clearly uncatcahable and a light tug on the jersey shouldn't be a pi. Whatever happened to the uncatchable ball rule?"
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:33 PM) and as far as that montage I did have ESPN on for 2 hours after the game because I wanted to see all the reactions and get a clear understanding of this old rule and I never saw a bunch of clips where flags were thrown for the play in question. So I asked for proof. If it was on ESPN it wasn't on ESPN1 maybe ESPN 2 ,3 or news. Its not wrong or brutal to ask for proof when he stated he saw it on ESPN I had the channel on and didn't see what he claimed he saw and still haven't seen any video of proof of his claims
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:36 PM) But as I said not mad at all. 115 and I are cool and always have been Ive never been mad at him in anyway. This is a fan forum and we dispute. If we all agreed on everything there would be no point of the forum. Disputes on stats and calls make things interesting, and makes each of use see things from different points of view
Jetsfan115 Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:56 PM) it was on whatever channel the game itself came on
Jetsfan115 Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:56 PM) and for the record I don't have any issue with anything rob said. I just disagree with it
Jetsfan115 Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:57 PM) I do think rules are too offense friendly, but I think in this case, when someone blatently breaks a rule ti should be punished
Jetsfan115 Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:57 PM) but then again pacman got away with ripping off a players helmet and didn't get a penatly
Jetsfan115 Icon : (08 October 2015 - 03:57 PM) refs need to be more consistent
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 09:04 PM) Hell yeah! Pac 12 AZ State Jaelen Strong. Not a Texans fan but and dont watch a ton of college football but do watch the Pac 12 for football and basketball growing up in Phoenix and also a Suns fan and liking the Cardinals since they moved to AZ .Was a Jets fan though before Az got the cardinals . Strong was really good for AZ State.
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 09:05 PM) Havent studied up on strong for the Texans but will have to since the announcers said he hasnt played much. I want to know if he has been injured or not performing. He has good hands and size
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 09:08 PM) I actually was debating on starting the Colts witth Jets D on bye week glad I dropped them. Wasn't much to choose from. Some decent defenses but bad matchups. took a chance on the Jags this week hoping they can shut down Tampa
ROBJETS Icon : (08 October 2015 - 09:10 PM) Oh and thanks for that 115. people took it wrong. we were simply debating our opinions with passion for our love of football with no animosity and people took it wrong. Easy to misunderstand texts
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 11:21 AM) yeah people don't realize it's ok to disagree on the internet without it being 2 people hating each other lol
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 12:30 PM) I think if the defense touches a live football in the end zone, period, it should be ruled a touchback.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 12:30 PM) Talking about fumbles, not passes, of course.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 12:31 PM) That's the simplest way to combat any confusion about the rule.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 12:32 PM) If you don't like that rule, then don't fumble in the end zone your trying to score in.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 02:21 PM) it's gotta be possession.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 04:03 PM) I know what the rule is. In proposing a rule change. Evidently, the way it is now is too complicated. If a defense touches a live football in the end zone it should be their ball at the 20. Problem solved.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 04:03 PM) I'm*
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 04:44 PM) what if the defense touches it whole trying tor ecover but doens't get it and the offense jumps on it first?
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 05:56 PM) You may not agree with it 115 but the way I look at it is if the offense recovered it it would be a touchdown. Its ok for a punter, qb, or rb ,etc. to deliberately take a safety so they dont get a punt blocked for a td or to avoid giving the ball up on the 1-2 yard line giving up a near definite td. An also those safeties by the O sometimes saves the game because giving up 2 instead of 7 keeps the game in reach at times.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:03 PM) Thats why I disagree with the rule. The offense gets the breaks of only giving up 2 points on O. but when fumbkling into the endzone and out it is always ruled a touchback even if the defender or O tries to recoiver the ball in the endzone and the ball goes out of bounds. Thats why I think batting the ball out of the endzone should still be a touchback instead of giving the ball back to the O that fumbled the ball into the endzone. Just dont feel that they should get a chance to get the ball back for an almost automatic td when they fumbled into the endzone just because of a batted ball. Its something that could litterally cause the defense that made a great play to lose simply because of a vbatted ball. Yet if they try to recover it it and it goes out its a touchback. I just feel its to game changing and a bad rule to give the O the ball back after they messed up bad because that play was the difference between a win and loss. The O fumbles so giving the O the ball back is like saying your great def play was worthless.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:04 PM) Just feel that its a bad rule since it would have almost definitely changed the game winner.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:08 PM) Just to many good rules for the O these days and to many bad rules for the D. this isn't college where offense dominates in most games. In the pros I want to see an equal playing field and not how its become so offensive friendly. Our own Jets have lost a lot of games on defensive calls alone after stopping the O. 3rd down and a mile and a penalty cost a 1st down and in many cases the game for us. Basically that's why I'm against the rule. I want an equal playing field in the pros nothing more.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:26 PM) Offense is in control of the ball, they should have that option. Both teams get to play offense it's not unfiar
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:26 PM) a major defensive play is more game changing then a major offensive play too.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:26 PM) turnover ratio is better linked to win/loss then any other stat
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 06:27 PM) even in your case the offense gives up 2 point and posession back with good field position and ball control
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:33 PM) Lets just a agree to disagree on this topic. We both see the situation different and neither of us will budge on this. best we just let it go and see if the NFL starts enforcing the rule more or changes it at some point. Either way. All the coaches and players in the league now know the rule so I doubt it will deliberately happen again any time soon....but then again who knows...in the games there are a lot of stupid fouls out of frustration, taunting, etc.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:34 PM) And the fans and officials are now aware of a rule almost no one but the officials knew.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 06:37 PM) Heck Im upset that we arent 4-0 right now with all thr mistakes against the Eagles and still almost coming back. I feel we need every win we can get especially with the Bills looking decent and always having to deal with the pats every year. Be nice to win the division for once. So tired of seeing the Pats win and get a bye almost every year.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Yesterday, 11:12 PM) Why do the Jets DBs have to talk about the Giants WRs!!? Why can't they just worry about our own team.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Yesterday, 11:13 PM) I think all jets fans remember the last time our DBs talked crap about a Giants WR..
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Yesterday, 11:13 PM) The jets should just worry about the Jets!!
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Fixing The Jets: A Look At How Personnel Experts And Gms Would Solve Team's Woes

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

Fixing the Jets: A look at how personnel experts and GMs would solve team's woes

Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum walked along the far sideline of the practice field Friday and struck up a conversation with coach Rex Ryan, who clutched a play card between two gloved hands.

Out in front of them, pacing around the 25-yard line, was Tim Tebow, the backup quarterback who ended up bringing Tannenbaum and Ryan headlines and headaches, though little productivity. In 11 games, Tebow threw eight passes and completed six. He ran for 101 yards and no touchdowns.

On the 20, going through some drills, was Mark Sanchez, who started the season as the team’s franchise quarterback, buoyed by a generous contract extension that will guarantee him $8.25 million next year.

Sanchez was benched twice as his top targets fell to injury around him. He reclaimed his starting role for today only because Greg McElroy went down with a concussion. Sanchez has the most turnovers of any quarterback in the NFL over the past two seasons.

Back in the end zone, last year’s leading receiver, tight end Dustin Keller, hobbled through another rehab session on a bum ankle.

Injuries were everywhere this season.

Over the speaker system, Van Halen’s "Right Now" blared and covered up any chatter on the practice field. It is a song that typically fills packed stadiums during playoff games.

Friday, though, it was background noise accompanying the final practice of the year as the Jets (6-9) prepared to end their season today in a blacked-out, meaningless matchup with the Buffalo Bills (5-10). The outcome of the game means little, but the aftermath is crucial.

In front of Tannenbaum and Ryan on Friday, they saw a franchise at a crossroad — one that undoubtedly needs fixing and could claim both of their jobs.

But how to fix it?

Over the past week, The Star-Ledger surveyed a group of former NFL general managers and personnel executives to see how they would approach the issue. Findings varied from reassessing the value of large contract-worthy positions to some major shifts on the offensive side of the ball.

On Monday, the franchise will begin moving forward in earnest, making a plan to save it from another dreary end to another dreary season in 2013.

But until then, this is the best plan to fix the Jets.


Though a majority of the former executives surveyed did not think firing Tannenbaum was the correct action, at least one, former Broncos general manager Ted Sundquist, thought if a decision were to be made, it would need to come sooner rather than later.

Sundquist, a personnel executive on the Broncos’ 1997 and 1998 Super Bowl teams and owner of five consecutive winning seasons from 2002 to 2006 as GM, remembers being let go in March 2008, right in the middle of the team’s draft meetings. It was after the NFL Combine, a critical step in the building process, and he already had 2½ days of meetings with scouts and agents.

He had operated for months trying to restack a roster for a team that went 7-9 without any assurance from upper management.

"Now, you’re like, ‘Okay, am I the guy that’s going to have those meetings we talked about?’ " Sundquist said. "Who is going to make these decisions? I mean, the only thing they can do is act as if they are that guy."

The Jets will have plenty of those decisions to make, too.

Outside of Tannenbaum — who could make a case for his return, but is rumored to be reassigned or let go, according to various reports — the Jets will need to make decisions on Sanchez and Tebow, as well as whether or not to re-sign a group of plus-value free agents, including guard Brandon Moore, safety LaRon Landry, safety Yeremiah Bell, running back Shonn Greene and Keller.

According to people with knowledge of the situation, the Jets have not made contact with Moore, Greene or offensive lineman Matt Slauson, another starter approaching free agency. Bell, Landry and Keller have admitted recently to not having any conversations with the Jets about the future.

Various reports have also suggested that offensive coordinator Tony Sparano could be fired and defensive coordinator Mike Pettine could leave.

Stability, though, often lends itself to success, even in the face of two straight seasons missing the playoffs. This is second only to being forthcoming about the changes to be made so as to not force lame-duck candidates into the building to start retooling from last season.

"Hopefully they’ll be open and honest with everybody and give them an idea of where they want to go, and that starts with ownership," Sundquist said.


There will be plenty of fuss made about Sanchez’s contract, but as multiple analysts point out, the base salary for Sanchez in 2012-13 is not in the top 10 for starting quarterbacks in either season. Only two of those QBs had more playoff victories from 2009-11 than Sanchez before the Sanchez extension was handed out.

Is it a high salary for a quarterback whose development stalled dramatically this season? Yes. Are there quarterbacks who have a much larger effect on the team’s salary cap? Yes.

According to Gil Brandt, an NFL Network analyst who worked in personnel with the Dallas Cowboys for nearly 30 years (1960 to 1989), the problem lies more in contracts like that of line backer David Harris and cornerback Antonio Cromartie.

"I think the Jets have not used the salary cap effectively and they’re battling this same problem all time — they’re fighting the cap," Brandt said.

Brandt says the core value positions are as follows: Quarterback, pass-rusher, left tackle.

Brandt wondered, with strong defensive minds like Ryan and Pettine, is it necessary to have a middle linebacker worth more than $10 million on the roster for next season? Or could you get a replacement at one-third the cost that could still learn the defense and could come close to matching production?

(According to NFLPA records, Harris made more in base salary this season than Brian Urlacher, Paul Posluzny, Patrick Willis, Curtis Lofton, Jon Beason and Ray Lewis.)

With a successful secondary coach like Dennis Thurman — Brandt says Thurman, whom he drafted in Dallas, could have success with "six high school seniors" in his secondary — does the defense need to pay three first-round grade defensive backs, including Cromartie, who could also make in excess of $10 million next season?

(According to NFLPA records, Cromartie made more in base salary this year than Charles Tillman, Antoine Winfield and Kareem Jackson, all of whom graded above Cromartie against the pass, per Pro Football Focus.)

"That helps your cap situation in a big hurry," Brandt said.


Charley Casserly, an NFL Network analyst who worked in the Redskins front office from 1977 to 1999, advocates an honest and open conversation with Sparano and the offensive coaching staff before firing anyone.

Heading into today’s game, the Jets are 12th in rushing (117.5 yards per game) and 30th in passing (179.5 ypg) and total yards (297 ypg).

"I think they need to be much more wide open and creative," he said. "But I want to know what your plans were before you lost it all due to injury. Your receiving corps was basically wiped out. No continuity."

If there is a pardon to be given there, all were in agreement that Sanchez is not the long-term solution at quarterback.

"The quarterback is not the answer," Brandt said. "Pete Caroll, who I think is very good, recognized that (at USC). From the outside looking in, Sanchez has got the ability, but does he have the work ethic to execute that ability?"

Added Casserly: "I’m not sold on Sanchez. If he has to be here, that’s fine, but you have to bring competition in."

The consensus is to add a veteran who can push Sanchez forward and become an everyday starter if he wins a training camp battle — specifically one with tenure in the league.

Tebow, obviously, was not that solution heading into this season because the Jets coaching staff did not start him when presented with two separate opportunities.

Names thrown around include Alex Smith, the 49ers recently replaced starter with an exceptional completion percentage (70.0) this season, and Matt Moore, a versatile quarterback in Miami who was bypassed for rookie Ryan Tannehill.


In 2009-10, the Jets had the fewest number of selections in the NFL Draft, with three and four, respectively. In 2011, the Jets had six selections and kept five players. In 2012, the Jets had eight selections and kept six. From each of those last two drafts, they attained two starters and three role players used, at least, occasionally (including Greg McElroy).

Brandt believes stockpiling rookies — who are more NFL ready than ever — is the quickest way to heal some cap woes. The salaries, and egos, are more under control. The number of picks kept and usable players needs to rise.

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the NFL is on pace to shatter the number of rookie starts in a season and had already reached 498 in Week 10.

Though it’s not the most certain route, it may be the necessary one at this point for the Jets.

"Get these younger players to come in and play, alleviate some of your cap problems," Brandt said. "The players that come into the league are so much more ready to play than they were before."

* * *

After the conversation ended at practice Friday, Ryan left Tannenbaum, went over to align his defense for a drill and smiled as the offense lined up to counter.

The work is what drives Ryan, keeps him focused during a time when even the results of last week’s labor won’t change much. At the most, it means the difference between 7-9 and 6-10, a no-man’s land in the NFL — too bad to make the playoffs and too good to dream of a top-three draft pick. The near future is out of Ryan’s hands now, just like it is Tannenbaum’s.

When times were good, and the Jets were roaring to a second straight AFC Championship Game in 2011, both would often say they are in the win business, and that when business is good it’s never as good as it seems.

Conor Orr: corr@starledger.com; twitter.com/ConorTOrr


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