[Chaos]

Quote

"He's not going to win any games for you. He's a defensive back who will shut down the [opponent's] top receiver, but the ball is not in his hands. The Jets need more than a top corner. They need some pieces. If he gives them the value to get those pieces, then move him."

-- ESPN analyst Keyshawn Johnson, on the possibility of the Jets trading Darrelle Revis, to Bob Glauber of Newsday.

Now, I've always liked Keyshawn Johnson. Hard worker when he played, unselfish blocker, etc. But this is one of the most short-sighted things I've heard a TV analyst say in a long time, and that's covering a lot of ground.

He's not going to win any games for you. Let's go back to the Jets' playoff win at San Diego in the 2009 season, the one in which the Jets amassed all of 262 total yards. The receivers Revis covered that day caught one ball -- for minus-four yards. Next year: Jets over the Bengals two straight weeks, once to end the regular season, once to start the playoffs; Revis held Chad Ochocinco to two catches for 28 yards in those eight quarters. Against Indy in the 2010 playoffs, Revis held Reggie Wayne to one catch for one yard when he covered him.

That's domination on a Lawrence Taylor scale. That's like justifying the Giants trading LT in 1988 because he only touches the ball when he intercepts it.

Now, if you want to make the case that the Jets should trade Revis because he's damaged goods after ACL surgery, then make that case. If you want to make the case that the Jets don't have the luxury of paying a corner that much money because they need so much help on offense, then make that case. But don't insult the readers of Newsday by saying defensive players aren't going to win games, implying, of course, that the only players who should make really big money are offensive players. Watch the game. Watch the games in 2012, and you'll see how, with the rise of the mobile quarterback, cornerbacks are going to be more valuable than ever because they'll be on islands with the Calvin Johnsons and Andre Johnsons more, without the regularity of safety help.

http://sportsillustr...2&eref=sihp#all

[chocomag]

Chaos, on 04 March 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

http://sportsillustr...2&eref=sihp#all

I don't think that was what Keyshawn was saying. I think he was referring to the fact that a WR who does not get thrown to because the CB is so good is an isolated situation as opposed to a LB or D-lineman who is involved in virtually every defensive play.

Having said that, I do agree with you that Revis has won games for us. Keyshawn did not equate the fact that a Calvin Johnson who can be single covered by Revis allows for a D-back blitzer or 8 in the box.

I believe Revis should be traded for the simple facts that in my opinion no CB is worth $16 million a year and that we need too many pieces. In addition, if you look at the past 10 Super Bowl winners, there is 1 shut down corner (Woodsen) in that group. The Patriots, Giants, Ravens, Steelers, Saints, didn't have one. Sure, some of them had some good CB's - even really good CB's.

What they had were elite QB's (Flacco is getting there), strong pash rush and excellent O-line. That's the secret to success and we are a mess in all 3 areas. If Revis being traded can get us 2 picks in rounds 1 and 3 and they aren't at the back end, we should seriously consider it.

Draft choices are a crap shoot to a certain degree. Our philosophy under Tanny was to trade away more picks for lesser but higher picks. That's the wrong approach. We need to amass as many picks as possible so at the end of the day we have some that really stick and perform.

I would try to get teams like Oakland, Detroit, Cleveland, Tennessee, who according to mock drafts are interested in Dee Milner, to trade their 1 and 3 for Revis. The argument should be persuasive in that Millner could be average while Revis is the best. For those teams it would be like trading their 3rd round pick (as they would exchange Revis for MIlner with round 1 pick).

That would give us 2 first round picks and 2 third round picks. Then I would look to trade our #9 first round pick and move down a little in return for someone's first and second. If successful we would wind up with two firsts, two seconds and two thirds. We would also save money as rookie wage scales are low.

Then see if Seattle is interested in Flynn for our 4th round pick. If we could make that then we may very well rebuild our team in 1 year.

Will it happen - not a chance. But it should be explored.

[HarlemHxC814]

When did Revis or his people say they want $16M a season?

[Mr_Jet]

HarlemHxC814, on 05 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

When did Revis or his people say they want $16M a season?

And when have the Jets FO said that they would give Revis 16 million dollars? Revis could want a billion dollars a year, that doesn't mean the Jets are just going to give it to him. Just because Revis ALLEGEDLY wants 16 million a season that doesn't mean that's what he'll end up getting. Revis is not stupid, he knows the Jets (or any other team) isn't going pay him that much money. IF the 16 million dollar figure is true that is just a starting figure before negotiations begin. I don't understand why people are so worried about that damn 16 million dollar number that Revis neither asked for or would ever get anyway.

[chocomag]

HarlemHxC814, on 05 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

When did Revis or his people say they want $16M a season?

[HarlemHxC814]

Mr_Jet, on 05 March 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

And when have the Jets FO said that they would give Revis 16 million dollars? Revis could want a billion dollars a year, that doesn't mean the Jets are just going to give it to him. Just because Revis ALLEGEDLY wants 16 million a season that doesn't mean that's what he'll end up getting. Revis is not stupid, he knows the Jets (or any other team) isn't going pay him that much money. IF the 16 million dollar figure is true that is just a starting figure before negotiations begin. I don't understand why people are so worried about that damn 16 million dollar number that Revis neither asked for or would ever get anyway.

Additionally he would be a total idiot not to ask for it. He has the right to get what he van while he can. I also don't understand why people are so gung-ho about trading him when it entails a $12M cap hit. I've been trying to get that question answered for the longest and i haven't seen a response from anyone

[chocomag]

Mr_Jet, on 05 March 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

And when have the Jets FO said that they would give Revis 16 million dollars? Revis could want a billion dollars a year, that doesn't mean the Jets are just going to give it to him. Just because Revis ALLEGEDLY wants 16 million a season that doesn't mean that's what he'll end up getting. Revis is not stupid, he knows the Jets (or any other team) isn't going pay him that much money. IF the 16 million dollar figure is true that is just a starting figure before negotiations begin. I don't understand why people are so worried about that damn 16 million dollar number that Revis neither asked for or would ever get anyway.

The number $16 million came from his desire to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. Do I know for sure he asked for that? The only way I could know for sure is if he told me personally. But that was what was reported.

However, you're doing the same thing that you are questioning. You are marrying the number. I could just as easily said that in my opinion no CB is worth $12 million or more. The real question is how much do you spend on your defensive backfield? Cro is making $8 mil. Landry wants $5 mil or so (I would let him walk as well) and Revis is let's say $14 mil to split the difference. Add Bells very reasonable $1 mil and our defensive backfield would cost us $27 mil or 22% of our total cap. Doesn't sound reasonable.

[Mr_Jet]

chocomag, on 05 March 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

The number $16 million came from his desire to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. Do I know for sure he asked for that? The only way I could know for sure is if he told me personally. But that was what was reported.

When did he say that? Are we talking about 2010 or this year? Reported where, because I'd like to read it for myself?

Quote

However, you're doing the same thing that you are questioning. You are marrying the number. I could just as easily said that in my opinion no CB is worth $12 million or more. The real question is how much do you spend on your defensive backfield? Cro is making $8 mil. Landry wants $5 mil or so (I would let him walk as well) and Revis is let's say $14 mil to split the difference. Add Bells very reasonable $1 mil and our defensive backfield would cost us $27 mil or 22% of our total cap. Doesn't sound reasonable.

Maybe if the Jets hadn't given a certain quarterback a contract extension last year (after he came off of a bad 2011 season), they would have more money to play with this year. Before they gave Sanchez that extension they knew when Revis's contract would be up. All this didn't suddenly come up unexpectedly. I'm just saying people shouldn't be so obsessed with a number that he's not going to get anyway.

[SecondHandJets]

HarlemHxC814, on 05 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Additionally he would be a total idiot not to ask for it.

The validity of the $16M isn't an issue. It's this ^. Revis DESERVES to be paid as much as any player on defense because he's just that dominant. Whether or not he gets to be paid the highest of all defenders, the highest of all defensive backs or etc doesn't matter. What matters is that he'd be a total idiot not to ask for it, right? Well here's the thing: when he asks for it, he's not just going to ask Woody Johnson. He's going to ask THE MARKET. That's how you become highest paid. You make yourself available to the highest bidder, not just to the current team. Ergo, since we all agree that Revis would be a total idiot not to ask for the most money, we all agree, even begrudgingly, that Revis will likely explore Free Agency. Now there's no guarantee that with Sanchez and Holmes (who will be a cap savings of $10M if cut in 2014 per his present contract) that the Jets can't resign him in FA... but not one single person here would be so bold as to let Revis hit FA and potentially get nothing if he decides to sign elsewhere. That's why we must trade him.

[HarlemHxC814]

Me saying that was just general, every player should ask for the highest amount they can. Even if he asks for that, i can't see why people really believe he is going to get it. That's why it is called a negotiation. The team has not communicated with Revis or his people, so who the hell knows where his numbers are going to start?

[chocomag]

Mr_Jet, on 05 March 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

When did he say that? Are we talking about 2010 or this year? Reported where, because I'd like to read it for myself?




Maybe if the Jets hadn't given a certain quarterback a contract extension last year (after he came off of a bad 2011 season), they would have more money to play with this year. Before they gave Sanchez that extension they knew when Revis's contract would be up. All this didn't suddenly come up unexpectedly. I'm just saying people shouldn't be so obsessed with a number that he's not going to get anyway.

It has been reported in the NY Post, ESPN, Mike and Mike in the Morning. That doesn't make it true but from his history, do you really doubt he wants to make considerably more than Asougmha (or however you spell it)? This is now - not 2010.

As for your comment about overpaying Sanchez, only an idiot could argue with that. We not only overpaid him but we guaranteed it and gave him a raise on his disgusting 2011 season.

But no matter what - the question is moot as we are in that position now. So what amount would you consider an amount worth paying to keep Revis. Don't get me wrong - he is far and away my favorite Jet. But business is business and no one else on the Jets can get us the high draft choices we need to rebuild this mess.

[SecondHandJets]

HarlemHxC814, on 05 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Me saying that was just general, every player should ask for the highest amount they can. Even if he asks for that, i can't see why people really believe he is going to get it. That's why it is called a negotiation. The team has not communicated with Revis or his people, so who the hell knows where his numbers are going to start?

You can stick your head in the sand and blame the Jets or you can be pragmatic about it. Yea, the Jets didn't approach Revis' camp yet. Not this time. In 2010 (or 3 years ago) Revis point blank said that he wanted to the be highest paid cornerback. Then he held out for over a month, got a deal that averages $12M per year with $30+M in guarantees, and he called it a "band aid" that was going to hold him down until the "real" deal got done. You really think he's looking to make less than $12M a year? You really think he'll take less than that? I'd love to hear your reasons.

[HarlemHxC814]

I never said i was blaming the team, i just said negotiation hasn't begun. He could very well ask for $16 million, but i don't think he realistically expects to get that. That's why they have negotiations

[SecondHandJets]

HarlemHxC814, on 05 March 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I never said i was blaming the team, i just said negotiation has begun. He could very well ask for $16 million, but i don't think he realistically expects to get that. That's why they have negotiations

I agree. I think his number is between $13 and $16M per year for 6 years. I believe that Woody doesn't want to pay that.

[Mr_Jet]

chocomag, on 05 March 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It has been reported in the NY Post, ESPN, Mike and Mike in the Morning. That doesn't make it true but from his history, do you really doubt he wants to make considerably more than Asougmha (or however you spell it)? This is now - not 2010.

Reported that he wants 16 million dollars or reported that he has wanted that in the past or reported that "sources close to Revis" say he wants 16 million. I watch ESPN everyday too and I haven't once seen a report that flat out said Revis wants 16 million. When they report they make sure they try to be a vague as possible by saying things like "sources close to" or "allegedly" or "has been reported by others." That's how they protect themselves from criticism in the future if the story ends up being false. They then say "our sources where misinformed" or something like that. Remember back in 2010 when Tim Cowlishaw reported that Revis and the Jets had come to a deal. Then when he was criticized for it he doubled down and said his info came from a source that has "never been wrong" before. And as we all know Revis and the Jets did not have a deal at that time Cowlishaw said that they did.

From the New York Post (January 26, 2013):
"According to someone familiar with his thinking, Revis is seeking a contract similar to or “just north of’’ the deal the Bills gave defensive end Mario Williams — six years, $96 million with $50 million guaranteed. That is the largest contract for a defensive player in NFL history."

From ESPN:
"Revis is believed to be seeking about $16 million per year, so the Jets have to decide whether to re-sign him, trade him or let him play out the season."

From Bloomberg:
"ESPN has said Revis may be seeking as much as $16 million a year."

From Yahoo:
"However, Revis is due $6 million and is seeking a new deal that will pay him about $16 million, according to ESPN.com."

No real reporting there. Just one outlet saying something with no concrete evidence and then the other outlets pick it up and then they run with it. "Sources familiar with his thinking," that could be anybody. Hell those sources might not even exist for all we know. No what it is, is that these outlets report that "sources familiar with his thinking" or "Revis is believed (believed by who) to be," then they put the 16 million dollar figure out there that's what the readers focus on. They focus on and remember that "$16 million per year" part and not the "sources" and "believed to be" parts that are also in those articles. That's not good sports reporting that's just speculation created to have something to write about.

Quote

As for your comment about overpaying Sanchez, only an idiot could argue with that. We not only overpaid him but we guaranteed it and gave him a raise on his disgusting 2011 season.

But no matter what - the question is moot as we are in that position now. So what amount would you consider an amount worth paying to keep Revis. Don't get me wrong - he is far and away my favorite Jet. But business is business and no one else on the Jets can get us the high draft choices we need to rebuild this mess.

I don't know what amount Revis is worth. Not 16 million a year I know that. I guess it's good Revis isn't asking for that despite what the media has reported. It would be nice if Woody, Idzik, and Revis and his agent would negotiate a new deal and we could get an actual number everybody of importance has agreed to. But that would mean Woody actually talking to Revis instead of to the media about Revis.

[SecondHandJets]

Mr Jet, you sound like Karl Rove before election night. When there's smoke, there's fire.

[Chaos]

SecondHandJets, on 05 March 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Mr Jet, you sound like Karl Rove before election night. When there's smoke, there's fire.

Yes, the fire is Revis wants a big money contract. The smoke is the bullshit numbers that are floating around.

[FlyHiJets]

It's funny how people are claiming that it's only what's "reported" that Revis wants 16 million so that must be wrong but then swearing up & down that his cap number is 12 million because that's what's been reported even though his salary & bonuses only account for 9 million. So essentially in some people's eyes, what's being reported must be wrong when it comes to the money he wants, but it's right for his cap hit if traded? Somehow that doesn't make much sense to me.

And if he really does stand firm at 16 to where the team doesn't pay him, are you willing to let that cap hit be 18 million for one year of service considering his 9 million hit this year and the other 9 in cap hit we'd take next year when he walks away? To me, I'd rather take a 12 million hit & get a 1st rounder & then some (plus a 2nd in compensatory) rather than an 18 million hit and maybe a 3rd round compensatory in 2014 and nothing else.

[Mr_Jet]

SecondHandJets, on 05 March 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Mr Jet, you sound like Karl Rove before election night. When there's smoke, there's fire.

"Someone familiar with his thinking" is neither smoke or fire. It's at best speculation and that's all. You guys want to to talk about his history. I don't fully remember what was the deal behind his holdout as a rookie. But I do remember the 2010 holdout and that was a simple case of Revis outplaying his rookie contract. He deserved a new one and used the little leverage he did have to try to get one. I'm not going to hold his past history of holdouts against him. But some of you grab on to these "Revis wants ___ million dollars" stories because it feeds into that "he's greedy" stigma some fans already have of him. And then others use those high numbers to to play armchair general manager and salivate over the idea that the Jets will be able to fleece some other team of their high draft picks by trading Revis.


But the Jets can squash all of this speculation of what Revis wants by at least trying to negotiate a new contract with him.

[Chaos]

FlyHiJets, on 05 March 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

It's funny how people are claiming that it's only what's "reported" that Revis wants 16 million so that must be wrong but then swearing up & down that his cap number is 12 million because that's what's been reported even though his salary & bonuses only account for 9 million. So essentially in some people's eyes, what's being reported must be wrong when it comes to the money he wants, but it's right for his cap hit if traded? Somehow that doesn't make much sense to me.

And if he really does stand firm at 16 to where the team doesn't pay him, are you willing to let that cap hit be 18 million for one year of service considering his 9 million hit this year and the other 9 in cap hit we'd take next year when he walks away? To me, I'd rather take a 12 million hit & get a 1st rounder & then some (plus a 2nd in compensatory) rather than an 18 million hit and maybe a 3rd round compensatory in 2014 and nothing else.

Here is the info about why it is $12 million and not $9 million:

Quote

The second hangup comes on the Jets end. The information I have on Revis’ contract tells me that he should carry a dead money hit of $12 million in 2013, not $9 million as reported, if the Jets were to trade him. That $12 million comes from an $18 million dollar option bonus he received in 2011 that was prorated from 2011 thru 2016. He is scheduled to count for $9 million against what looks to be a somewhat type cap for the team, so they would lose a net of $3 million for the year plus whatever draft pick and/or player salary they get back for him. So its difficult for both sides to make a deal.

http://nyjetscap.com...elle-revis.html