SecondHandJets, on 06 March 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:
See this is the problem, you're looking at this as independent events. Have you ever negotiated anything? Ever bought a car? It's not just about the final number, there's repoire that gets build. Revis and Woody and Revis and Tanny have (and had) a very frosty relationship. If you go back throughout the history of the NFL, there isn't a single player that held out twice. That stat carries a ton of weight with it. Revis is a guy who will give you an ultamatum and stick to it. Going into a 3rd series of negotiations with him must be a nightmare. Not only is he hard to compromise with, but he got his uncle in his ear... who is the only player to hold out for a whole season! You're telling me what this situation is the same as going into any other contract negotiation? You got a guy sitting across from you who already told you "My way or the highway" twice and his uncle who basically owns the biggest "f*** You" moment in NFL contract negotiation history.
I'm not excusing Tanny or Woody or even saying that this isn't 98% their own doing. But facts are facts. Revis has a reputation (deserved or not doesn't matter) as a guy who will hold out (and in the process, hurt his team).
You put way too much stock in those holdouts. If you go back throughout the history of the NFL you'll see that the owners have treated the players like shit. They try to pay them as little as possible with little to no guaranteed money while squeezing every bit of talent they can get out of the players. When a owner or GM uses hardball tactics and every bit of leverage they have to try to keep a player and pay him as little as possible, they're called "good businessmen" and "tough negotiators." But when a player plays hardball during the contract negotiations they're called "divas" and "greedy." I mean the best example of the ultimate leverage the owners have over the players is the franchise tag. A team instead of negotiating a new contract with a player to keep him on the team, they can just tag him instead to try to squeeze another year of service out of them. Then what if that player plays that season they're tagged and gets a devastating injury? Does the franchise give him a big contract or try to use that player's injury against him at the negotiating table? Franchises are like "well we would give you the money you were asking for before we tagged you, but because of your injury now we just don't think we can give you that big of a contract with such an uncertain future." A situation like that totally screws the player, but they're just the players so they're expendable, right? The NFL is the only one of the four major U.S. sports leagues to have something like the franchise tag which benefits the owners much more than the players. That's why Revis had that clause put into his last contract. He knew this could happen and the Jets would likely tag him instead of giving him a new deal. And look at what some have said about that, "the Jets were stupid for putting that clause in there." Do you see that? We're at a place now where it's seen as okay to place the franchise tag on a player rather than negotiate a new contract with him. Something that was put in place so teams could have more time to negotiate with a "franchise player" is now being used on punters. The majority of players who have the franchise tag placed on them don't even get new deals from their team after they play under the tag.
Again it's seen as "good business" when it's the player gets the short end of the stick. But when a player tries to use the leverage of a holdout "oh well then he's being difficult and is hurting the team for his own selfish gain." At least that's the way some fans see it. So what if Revis held out twice and has a history of being "hard to compromise with"? Why is it automatically assumed that Revis is hard to compromise with? Maybe it was Woody and Tanny who were the ones that wouldn't compromise. What's in it for Revis to just accept any deal the Jets want to give him? Why should he give the Jets a hometown discount as some people have talked about? The owners have used hardball tactics on the players for decades and now one (Revis) has played some hardball of his own and he's the bad guy? As I've said that first holdout could have been avoided if Tannenbaum would have just given Revis the same kind of rookie contract the players drafted around Revis were getting. The second holdout was just Revis believing (and he was right) that he had outperformed his rookie contract. He deserved to make more than just $1 million in 2010 after the kind of season he had in 2009. He was the best CB in the league and wanted to be paid as such. That's all those holdouts were about and in my view it was the Jets FO that was more responsible for those holdouts happening than Revis was. If they wouldn't have tried to be such "tough negotiators," there would have been no holdouts especially with that first one. So Revis isn't your typical NFL player who just rolls over and wants to make sure he's not getting underpaid for being the best at his position. Whether Revis's holdouts hurt the team is debatable because Revis is just one of 53 players. The Jets FO has done more to hurt this team than Revis holding out twice has. It's the FO that has overpaid the wrong players while neglecting to properly address other needs year after year.
And you guys really need to stop with that "Revis's uncle" nonsense. Before people criticize his uncle for "being in his ear," go back and look at Sean Gilbert's contract history. He was accused of signing a bad rookie contract "under duress" that hurt the players picked after him in the draft when it came to their contract negotiations. Then years later Washington tried to tag him and rather than just be a good boy and sign his tender like the FO wanted, he sat out a year. Instead of being a greedy little street thug towards the Redskins. Gilbert left $3.4 million on the table and got $0 in 1997. In fact he probably lost money in 97 because of the fines for holding out. Then the next season Washington signed Dana Stubbafield for 6 million a year when Gilbert was asking them for 5 million a year and they still tried to tag him again. So it's a good thing that Revis has an uncle who has been in the NFL before and was able to tell Revis what to expect. The owners and the agents are always going to be around a lot longer than the players are. The owners and agents have long windows to make their money, so it's up to the players to make sure they can make good money while they can. And when you're a player of Revis's caliber you want to make sure you're getting everything your worth. Now how is a player especially the great players supposed to do that when they have to deal with things like the franchise tag. Something that is not used for it's original purpose.
You're making a simple mistake. You're assuming that Revis is still aiming to just be the highest paid CB. The $16M figure being tossed around is, as is my understanding, what he's going to ask for because he wants to be the highest paid defensive player. I know what you're going to say, "Oh he never said that". You're right. He didn't come out and say that... yet. But again, lets look at what he has said and done in the past: he did say "Rex thinks I'm the best CB so I should be paid the most". Right? Clearly he equates his contribution on the field as compared to other CB to be comparble to his paycheck as compared to other CBs. That's fine. He was also vocally unhappy with making $12M a year 2 years ago... do you think he'll take less money now? Of course not. He won't take less than $12M just because the next best CB might be making $10M a year after Aso gets cut. He's going to say, and rightfully so, that his affect on a game is comparable to any great defensive player and therefore he should make what they're making. Do you not see that? The $16M being thrown around is based off of the Mario Williams contract, not the old Aso deal.
And again this is a ridiculous conversation entirely based on conjecture. The only thing I have ever read or heard him say is him talking about being the highest paid CB not the highest paid defensive player. Mean if it's all about the money why not say you want to be the highest paid player on the Jets or the highest paid player in the NFL? Those are just as ridiculous. All that being paid more than Mario Williams talk is bullshit. Revis knows the Jets are not in a position to give him that much money even if they wanted to give him that much. So why on earth would ask for something the Jets certainly can't give him. This doesn't make any sense and considering it comes from vague sources reported in a tabloid newspaper, excuse me if I don't buy the "I want more than Mario" talk. Revis may be a little street thug and hard to compromise with, but that doesn't mean he's stupid and I'm sure he knows that the Jets can't give him more than Mario Williams. But you know what, it doesn't matter now if he wanted more 2 years ago or wants more now. Because the Jets haven't done anything since doing that band-aid deal in 2010 to try to keep Revis long term. The Jets FO has made it clear (especially after giving Sanchez that extension) that they have no intention of making Revis a Jet for life. No he's difficult and doesn't do as they tell him so let's trade him to teach him a lesson. Yeah It's really going to teach him a lesson.
You're 100% right. Our GM gambled and busted out and our owner runs the team like a less flamboyant Daniel Snyder. You got two choices: be a Jet fan and root for the franchise or be a Revis fan and follow him wherever he goes. I'm not trying to get on a soap box and say that if you don't agree with Woody then you should root for another team. Shit, I don't agree with Woody either. The point I'm making is that what's done is done and unfortunately, this is the current situation of my Jets and I can either quit rooting for them (which I would if I could) or I can sit and pray that like Snyder, Woody can fall face first into some good luck.
Please. This Revis situation isn't a deal breaker situation in my eyes (unless they trade him to New England). This isn't a black or white, Jets or Revis situation. It's not "be a Jets fan" or "a Revis fan." If Revis is traded I'll do the same thing I did when Shaq was traded to Miami. I stuck with the team and wished the player well against all the other teams he faces. I still root for Abraham and Vilma, except when they play the Jets. I was a Jets fan and on this board before I even knew who Darrelle Revis was, that's not going to change. Revis could be traded tomorrow and I'm still going to be here and I'm still going to be a Jets fan. An angry Jets fan that will rant about the stupid trade the Jets made and how they let a future HOFer go for some draft picks. But just because somebody is a fan of a certain franchise that doesn't mean they have to shut up and go along with whatever the FO does? If a franchise's FO is talking about making a bad decision, you call them out on it and hope that they realize it's a bad decision before they make it. You're right, we all better pray that Woody falls face first into some luck. Because if they trade Revis and these amazing draft picks we get back don't pan out....then what? All we could say is same old Jets I guess. It took Daniel Snyder 13 years to fall into RGIII (and he's only entering year two so we're far from knowing how he pans out), Woody is now in year 13 too and I don't see any RGIII types in the draft next month. We would have been better off trading Revis for draft picks last year.