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Jets win 3-1. Beat dolphins so bad that philbin isnt allowed back from england.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (06 October 2015 - 06:37 PM) call em a liar if you want, but I seen it man
santana Icon : (07 October 2015 - 12:52 AM) guess I should enable a character limit for the shoutbox
santana Icon : (07 October 2015 - 12:53 AM) getting a bit out of hand
Jetsman05 Icon : (07 October 2015 - 06:30 AM) Rob you're brutal
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:30 PM) Who should I start this week in fantasy football? Its a PPR league. I can start 3 of the WRs Edelman-/D-Thomas/Mike Evans/James Jones
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:30 PM) Edelman and Thomas are must start
MikeGangGree... Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:31 PM) So do I start Evans against Jax or James Jones vs STL
Jetsfan115 Icon : (07 October 2015 - 01:45 PM) jones. winston likes jackson more then evans
RetireChrebet Icon : (Yesterday, 01:47 PM) My two year old daughter is less manic and is able to maintain her composure much better than someone we know here ....
azjetfan Icon : (Yesterday, 03:07 PM) Dolphins have also fired their DC
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:24 PM) I am composed. 115 and I may see things differently but he has never pissed me off. He is just trying to make his point of view and I mine nothing more
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:25 PM) I just feel the rule is a very bad rule to give the offense the ball back for losing the ball in the endzone because of a batted ball and feel the NFL is far to offense firendly these days thats all
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:27 PM) I know many agree with that. I get that many changes have been made to limit things like brain damage and other injuries some season ending and career ending but defenses cant play hard like they used to and pathetic calls on defenses have ruinbed many games.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:29 PM) Thats why brought up the Jets Fish game. The balls were clearly uncatcahable and a light tug on the jersey shouldn't be a pi. Whatever happened to the uncatchable ball rule?"
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:33 PM) and as far as that montage I did have ESPN on for 2 hours after the game because I wanted to see all the reactions and get a clear understanding of this old rule and I never saw a bunch of clips where flags were thrown for the play in question. So I asked for proof. If it was on ESPN it wasn't on ESPN1 maybe ESPN 2 ,3 or news. Its not wrong or brutal to ask for proof when he stated he saw it on ESPN I had the channel on and didn't see what he claimed he saw and still haven't seen any video of proof of his claims
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 03:36 PM) But as I said not mad at all. 115 and I are cool and always have been Ive never been mad at him in anyway. This is a fan forum and we dispute. If we all agreed on everything there would be no point of the forum. Disputes on stats and calls make things interesting, and makes each of use see things from different points of view
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 03:56 PM) it was on whatever channel the game itself came on
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 03:56 PM) and for the record I don't have any issue with anything rob said. I just disagree with it
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 03:57 PM) I do think rules are too offense friendly, but I think in this case, when someone blatently breaks a rule ti should be punished
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 03:57 PM) but then again pacman got away with ripping off a players helmet and didn't get a penatly
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Yesterday, 03:57 PM) refs need to be more consistent
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 09:04 PM) Hell yeah! Pac 12 AZ State Jaelen Strong. Not a Texans fan but and dont watch a ton of college football but do watch the Pac 12 for football and basketball growing up in Phoenix and also a Suns fan and liking the Cardinals since they moved to AZ .Was a Jets fan though before Az got the cardinals . Strong was really good for AZ State.
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 09:05 PM) Havent studied up on strong for the Texans but will have to since the announcers said he hasnt played much. I want to know if he has been injured or not performing. He has good hands and size
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 09:08 PM) I actually was debating on starting the Colts witth Jets D on bye week glad I dropped them. Wasn't much to choose from. Some decent defenses but bad matchups. took a chance on the Jags this week hoping they can shut down Tampa
ROBJETS Icon : (Yesterday, 09:10 PM) Oh and thanks for that 115. people took it wrong. we were simply debating our opinions with passion for our love of football with no animosity and people took it wrong. Easy to misunderstand texts
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 11:21 AM) yeah people don't realize it's ok to disagree on the internet without it being 2 people hating each other lol
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 12:30 PM) I think if the defense touches a live football in the end zone, period, it should be ruled a touchback.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 12:30 PM) Talking about fumbles, not passes, of course.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 12:31 PM) That's the simplest way to combat any confusion about the rule.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 12:32 PM) If you don't like that rule, then don't fumble in the end zone your trying to score in.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 02:21 PM) it's gotta be possession.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 04:03 PM) I know what the rule is. In proposing a rule change. Evidently, the way it is now is too complicated. If a defense touches a live football in the end zone it should be their ball at the 20. Problem solved.
RetireChrebet Icon : (Today, 04:03 PM) I'm*
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 04:44 PM) what if the defense touches it whole trying tor ecover but doens't get it and the offense jumps on it first?
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 05:56 PM) You may not agree with it 115 but the way I look at it is if the offense recovered it it would be a touchdown. Its ok for a punter, qb, or rb ,etc. to deliberately take a safety so they dont get a punt blocked for a td or to avoid giving the ball up on the 1-2 yard line giving up a near definite td. An also those safeties by the O sometimes saves the game because giving up 2 instead of 7 keeps the game in reach at times.
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:03 PM) Thats why I disagree with the rule. The offense gets the breaks of only giving up 2 points on O. but when fumbkling into the endzone and out it is always ruled a touchback even if the defender or O tries to recoiver the ball in the endzone and the ball goes out of bounds. Thats why I think batting the ball out of the endzone should still be a touchback instead of giving the ball back to the O that fumbled the ball into the endzone. Just dont feel that they should get a chance to get the ball back for an almost automatic td when they fumbled into the endzone just because of a batted ball. Its something that could litterally cause the defense that made a great play to lose simply because of a vbatted ball. Yet if they try to recover it it and it goes out its a touchback. I just feel its to game changing and a bad rule to give the O the ball back after they messed up bad because that play was the difference between a win and loss. The O fumbles so giving the O the ball back is like saying your great def play was worthless.
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:04 PM) Just feel that its a bad rule since it would have almost definitely changed the game winner.
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:08 PM) Just to many good rules for the O these days and to many bad rules for the D. this isn't college where offense dominates in most games. In the pros I want to see an equal playing field and not how its become so offensive friendly. Our own Jets have lost a lot of games on defensive calls alone after stopping the O. 3rd down and a mile and a penalty cost a 1st down and in many cases the game for us. Basically that's why I'm against the rule. I want an equal playing field in the pros nothing more.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 06:26 PM) Offense is in control of the ball, they should have that option. Both teams get to play offense it's not unfiar
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 06:26 PM) a major defensive play is more game changing then a major offensive play too.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 06:26 PM) turnover ratio is better linked to win/loss then any other stat
Jetsfan115 Icon : (Today, 06:27 PM) even in your case the offense gives up 2 point and posession back with good field position and ball control
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:33 PM) Lets just a agree to disagree on this topic. We both see the situation different and neither of us will budge on this. best we just let it go and see if the NFL starts enforcing the rule more or changes it at some point. Either way. All the coaches and players in the league now know the rule so I doubt it will deliberately happen again any time soon....but then again who knows...in the games there are a lot of stupid fouls out of frustration, taunting, etc.
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:34 PM) And the fans and officials are now aware of a rule almost no one but the officials knew.
ROBJETS Icon : (Today, 06:37 PM) Heck Im upset that we arent 4-0 right now with all thr mistakes against the Eagles and still almost coming back. I feel we need every win we can get especially with the Bills looking decent and always having to deal with the pats every year. Be nice to win the division for once. So tired of seeing the Pats win and get a bye almost every year.
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Waiting On Revis The 2nd half is a great analysis...

#1 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

Despite all the hyperbole and seemingly daily breathless media stories about how a Revis trade is imminent and how Revis MUST be dealt prior to the 2013 draft and how the Jets are BLOWING IT with their stubbornness in waiting for the right deal, I believe John Idzik is taking just the right approach with Revis. Here's why.

Much digital ink has been spilled detailing the risk the Jets take of having the market for Revis dry up and being left holding the bag, forced to watch Revis play out the string and bring back nothing more than a compensatory 2015 pick after he leaves in 2014. To be sure, there is risk there. The risk is being left with a single 2015 compensatory pick, no higher than a low 3rd round pick, rather than whatever package of picks might be had by trading Revis now. But it may help to quantify ALL the risks in this situation, not just the risk of losing one or two draft picks.

There are two basic possibilities for Revis' health. Either he returns 100% to the Revis of old, or he does not. Based on the best medical data available, returning 100% good as new is the most likely scenario, maybe 70-80% likely, maybe more, but hardly a slam dunk. Of course there are endless variations on the he does not return 100% theme, but in order to keep things manageable in evaluating the risks, let's just say for the sake of argument that he does not return 100% means he is no longer the best CB in football, and there is a nontrivial possibility he is no longer even much above average.

There are 3 basic possibilities as to the end game of where Revis plays football in 2014. He could re-sign with the Jets. He could be traded by the Jets, most likely for a package of draft picks. Or he could play out 2013 and sign with another team in 2014, with the Jets receiving at most a compensatory 3rd round pick.

So let's break this down into the 8 possible outcomes with respect to Revis (with the understanding that the Revis not 100% outcome is somewhat too simplistic)

1. Revis does not come back 100% and is traded for a package of 2013 and/or 2014 picks sooner rather than later. In this case, the Jets come out on top, but it is likely not an overwhelming victory, as the package of picks will likely be less than ideal due to the acquiring team's taking on the substantial risk of Revis' health. The Jets are unlikely to get back a huge haul of picks, but this would be a moderate win for the Jets.

2. Revis does not come back 100% and is traded later, for a package of 2014 or later picks. This would likely be a small win for the Jets. Any such package would probably reflect Revis' on field failure to recover 100%, as well as the reduced ability of any potential acquirer to fit Revis under the cap later in the season. However, the reduction in trade package received would be more than balanced out by the Jets dodging the bullet of re-signing Revis to a mega deal, only to find he is no longer worth it. The Jets recover something for Revis, and his failure to recover 100% means the Jets avoid overpaying on a long term contract for a diminished player.

3. Revis does not come back 100% and plays out the string in 2013, entering 2014 free agency. The Jets do not re-sign him because of his diminished play. This would probably be a small loss for the Jets, as they miss out on any trade package and receive only a compensatory draft pick in return. Still, they dodge the mega deal bullet, making the final outcome not too negative for Gang Green.

4. Revis does not come back 100% but is re-signed early in the process. This is a huge loss for the Jets, as they will be tied to a long term mega deal for a diminished player.

5. Revis comes back 100% and is traded for a package of 2013 and/or 2014 picks sooner rather than later. This would be a big loss for the Jets. No package of picks coming back is likely to come close to compensating for the loss of a healthy Revis.

6. Revis comes back 100% and is traded later, for a package of 2014 or later picks. This would be a huge loss, as a later trade is likely to bring back a lesser package of picks.

7. Revis comes back 100% and is lost to 2014 free agency. The biggest loss of all, for obvious reasons.

8. Revis comes back 100% and is re-signed by the Jets. This would be a big win for the Jets, as they lock up their only HOF caliber player for years to come.

Now, let's look at the possible outcomes by time period. If the Jets deal Revis quickly (scenarios number 1 and 5), it results in either a small chance of a moderate win or a large chance of a big loss for the Jets. Since the odds favor 100% recovery, the big loss is substantially more likely than the moderate win. So it would seem moving Revis quickly is not a good choice unless the Jets get bowled over by a huge trade offer.

If the Jets deal Revis later (scenarios#2 and 6), the Jets could achieve either a small chance of a small win or a large chance of a huge loss. Odds are in favor of the huge loss, making this choice even less appealing than trading him quickly.

If the Jets do not trade Revis at all (scenarios #3, 4, 7 and 8), the Jets have a small chance of a small loss (#3); a small chance of a huge loss (#4); a large chance of a huge loss (#7); and a large chance of a huge win (#8). However, if the Jets do not trade Revis, scenarios #4 and 7 are largely avoidable. If Revis is not healthy, all the Jets have to do is wait and evaluate him as the months progress to avoid the huge problem of re-signing a diminished Revis. And if Revis does come back 100%, as long as he shows it in 2013 the Jets will be in excellent position to evaluate him and pay him whatever it will take to avoid the huge loss of losing a healthy Revis to free agency. So while 2 of the 4 scenarios involved in not trading Revis are worst case type scenarios, they are in fact rather easily avoided, leaving only #3, a small chance of a small loss, and #8, a large chance of a huge win.

Given the various scenarios above, I would argue that the least risky move for the Jets, somewhat counterintuitively, is to let Revis play out the year and only re-sign him if he is returned to 100% health. Now of course, the wisdom of risking losing Revis to free agency has to be taken into account. However, the Jets are in position to have large amounts of cap space in 2014 and will have exclusive negotiating rights with Revis until mid March 2014, so the chances of getting a deal done are extremely high if the Jets are willing to pony up the cash. It then boils down to, should the Jets be willing to pony up the cash for a healthy Revis? I would argue almost certainly yes. Here's why.

It is probably no surprise to many that by 2014 the Jets will have substantial cap space available, more than enough to sign a healthy Darrelle Revis to a mega deal. What may be less well known is just how much cap space is available by 2015, only 2 short years away. In 2015 the Jets have only 10 players under contract, including, for the time being, Mark Sanchez and Santonio Holmes. Assuming those two players will be cut by the 2014 season, the Jets will have only 8 players under contract for a total cap number of about $34 Million. That's right, assuming Holmes and Sanchez will be gone by then, the Jets are currently $90 Million under the 2015 cap. Now, that will obviously change between now and then. For one thing, there will be 3 draft classes accounting for approximately 20 players and $20 Million in cap space by the time the 2015 season begins. That brings us to 28 players on the roster and still $70 Million in cap space.

Who are the Jets going to spend all that cap space on? There are only 2 choices. We can spend it internally, on extensions to players currently on the roster. Or we can spend it on outside free agents.

Let's look for the moment at internal options. On the entire Jets roster, there are maybe 9 players that could possibly be good enough to spend much on in terms of extensions: Brick, Mangold, Cromartie, Wilkerson, Coples, Hill , Kerley, Ellis and Davis. But Brick and Mangold will both be 32 by the end of the 2015 season, and Cro will join them 3 months later, making them unlikely targets for big money extensions. Hill and Davis are not only unlikely to earn big money contracts by then, they will also not yet be eligible for contract extensions, as is also the case with Coples. That leaves Ellis, Wilkerson and Kerley. As much as we all like Kerley, we can probably agree it is unlikely he will earn a huge money extension in 2015. He's good, but he's not THAT good. Ellis is even less likely, both because of the low cost position he plays and because he has shown little so far to deserve it. That leaves Wilkerson. Big Wilk is likely to be the first internal contract Idzik extends for big bucks. He is a dominating force, and Idzik would be wise to tie him up for a long time. But what could such an extension cost at the maximum? Maybe $10 million in cap space? That leaves $60 million to be filled up by some mix of Brick, Mangold, Cro, Ellis, Kerley, some mix of outside free agents, and possibly Revis. It is difficult to imagine Idzik tying up more than $25 Million or so, and likely considerably less, on the five internal guys. So that leaves at least $35 Million, and likely considerably more, for Revis and outside free agents.

Now consider this. We are for purposes of this discussion dealing with a healthy Revis. Ask yourself, who would you rather spend your money on , a healthy Revis or some outside free agent? Sure, if a franchise QB were to make it to unrestricted free agency you'd have to value him over Revis. But how likely is that? And who else would you rather spend your money on? Just for comparison's sake, consider the 2013 free agent class. Is there a single player there you would rather pay big bucks to than a healthy Revis? Is anyone even close? A healthy Revis would still be in his prime. How often is a hall of fame talent in his prime available in free agency? What are the odds one would be in 2015? I would guess very low indeed.

Still, many object, you simply don't tie up franchise QB money on a CB. Well, maybe. But consider this. Even if the Jets find a franchise QB in the draft as early as 2013, they wouldn't be paying him any real money until 2017 at the earliest. So we couldn't spend the money on a franchise QB even if we wanted to. And interestingly enough, that timetable dovetails very nicely with a potential 5 year contract extension for Revis. Even if you make him the highest paid defensive player in the game, you can frontload the contract so that most of the money is paid in 2014 through 2016, with large salaries in 2017 and 2018 tied to performance bonuses paid only if he remains playing at a high level. The Jets then pay him the most money when he is still relatively young and at the top of his game, and when they have enormous amounts of cap space to afford it.

The Jets will not have an expensive QB to soak up cap space until 2017 at the earliest. Most of the best players on the team will not be likely to get long term extensions at high cap figures. John Idzik is not likely to go on a huge spending spree signing tons of big name free agents to expensive long term deals. And even in the unlikely event he were to do so, it is even more unlikely any such free agents will be more worthy of an expensive long term contract than Revis. The conclusion that makes the most sense, if Revis is healthy, is to pay the man, whatever it takes, even if it makes him the highest paid defensive player in football.

The Jets so far are playing a waiting game with Revis. I don't know if they plan on continuing to wait and only trade him if presented with an overwhelming offer, but I do think that is likely the best and least risky choice. Every possible scenario involves risk for the Jets. But I believe the least risky course of action is to wait and see how his recovery goes. The potential benefit of retaining a healthy Revis far outweighs the potential loss of draft picks obtainable in a trade. Wait and see, and if he is healthy, sign him up. I think it's the best course of action. Perhaps Idzik does too. And if he does, it would explain why the Jets seem in no rush to do anything just yet. Maybe good things will come to those who wait.

#2 User is offline   RetireChrebet Icon

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:48 AM

Once again outstanding write up shj

#3 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

The Only flaw is how do the Jets acquire the franchise QB they are talking about? Unless the Jets plan on being the worst team in the NFL, they are going to need ammunition to trade up for that franchise QB. That's where the trade of Revis comes in...and where the real value comparison of elite QB vs elite CB has to be made.
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#4 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

View PostRetireChrebet, on 24 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Once again outstanding write up shj

I didn't write that. I copy/pasted. But thanks.

#5 User is offline   Smedsthejet Icon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

View PostHurricaneJet32, on 24 March 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

The Only flaw is how do the Jets acquire the franchise QB they are talking about? Unless the Jets plan on being the worst team in the NFL, they are going to need ammunition to trade up for that franchise QB. That's where the trade of Revis comes in...and where the real value comparison of elite QB vs elite CB has to be made.

And even if they do acquire a QB at the top of an upcoming draft, how can you be certain he'll be an elite passer?

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