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Wrs We Need Them Do We Draft Or Spend? also rant on idzyk

#1 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

Right now we have holmes who took a paycut and is still young locked up. outside of him we have kerly who has done nice but isn't really starter material. we have hill who had a subpar rookie year but showed flashes who can possible step up. but we have no depth after that. the question is do we hit the draft or try and get a WR elsewhere. the giants tendered cruz and offered him a deal for 7 mil a year he doesn't want. he wants 10 probably like holmes, harvin, wallace etc got and he deserves it. however we have needs and won't want to give up pics and have to lock revis is we don't trade him (letting him walk would be a horrible move by idzyk)so where does that leave us? i feel like idzyk doesn't have a plan and is just being reactive. at least MT always had a plan even if it was bad. our roster has neds and idzky is trying to overhual and rebuild. loks liek he is shooting to compete not this seaosn but next season.

as far as i can tell revis might be gone. sanchez is our starter again, the o-line is worse then last year (lost 3 starters as of no with no replacements)our WRs are still piss poor, RBs are average. Keller is gone who was our best TE the past 4 years and led the team in receiving 2 of those years, and went to a division rival dirt cheap 1 year. our LBers have 0 OLBs and we have no safeties. Anyone else have bleak hopes for the season
Get it done MT
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#2 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:05 PM

1. Idzik has a plan: to fix the cap for 2014 and beyond. There's a reason a new GM is here, and that's not because Tanny did a great job and left behind a great team.

2. We will be switching to a WC offense which relies on route running and timing. Holmes and Kerley excel at that. Gates had a good season and will likely start out ahead of Hill to start the season. Holmes is not going to be here in 2014 and Hill, as Rex famously said, wasn't "his" pick. There's also a decent chance that Rex won't be here in 2014. What I'm getting at is that realistically, Hill is on a very short leash and will have to show that he's improving by leaps and bounds to hold the #3 spot. My guess is, we will end up drafting a WR in the middle rounds.

Not sure why you mentioned Cruz. We won't give up our #9 for him and even if we did, we don't have the cap room to offer him a contract. Our best bet to get a WR is to have one thrown into the Revis trade, if and when Revis is traded.

3. Revis should not be traded unless we're getting back two 1st round picks. End of story. In 2014, we're going to have a ton of cap room and we'll have about 2 months to exclusively negotiate with him. The Jets should not act desperate and trade him just because there's an offer out there. He's only getting paid $6M this season. Extend him and have the big money years hit in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Who else are we going to spend that money on? Phillip Rivers? GTFOH

4. Our OL lost 2 starters, not 3. As far as I can tell, both those starters are still unemployed. That goes to show you that maybe they weren't as great as we had thought. FA has come to a crawl and there will be very few signings between now and the draft. After the draft, the Jets will likely bring one or even both back (at a reduced price than what they're asking for right now). In the meantime, we signed Willie Colon to a dirt cheap deal. If he's healthy, he'll be better than either Slausen or Moore were last season.

5. RBs have been average since Curtis retired. Good OL play can make any RB look decent. I believe Powell has what it takes to be the #1 guy.

6. Our LBs have been terrible for the last 2 years. I prefer what we have now (Harris, Davis, McIntyre, Rookie X) to what we had last season. McIntyre in particular.

7. Keller left because he needs to have a banner year in order to get a big contract next year. He wasn't going to get that with Sanchez, Garrard and McElroy throwing lawn darts to him. He's going the JCo route, hopefully it works out for him better than it did for Cotch.
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#3 User is offline   HurricaneJet32 Icon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 26 March 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Gates had a good season and will likely start out ahead of Hill to start the season. Holmes is not going to be here in 2014 and Hill, as Rex famously said, wasn't "his" pick.


He did? 16 catches for 224 yards? Book this man a trip to Hawaii!
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#4 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostSecondHandJets, on 25 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

1. Idzik has a plan: to fix the cap for 2014 and beyond. There's a reason a new GM is here, and that's not because Tanny did a great job and left behind a great team.

2. We will be switching to a WC offense which relies on route running and timing. Holmes and Kerley excel at that. Gates had a good season and will likely start out ahead of Hill to start the season. Holmes is not going to be here in 2014 and Hill, as Rex famously said, wasn't "his" pick. There's also a decent chance that Rex won't be here in 2014. What I'm getting at is that realistically, Hill is on a very short leash and will have to show that he's improving by leaps and bounds to hold the #3 spot. My guess is, we will end up drafting a WR in the middle rounds.

Not sure why you mentioned Cruz. We won't give up our #9 for him and even if we did, we don't have the cap room to offer him a contract. Our best bet to get a WR is to have one thrown into the Revis trade, if and when Revis is traded.

3. Revis should not be traded unless we're getting back two 1st round picks. End of story. In 2014, we're going to have a ton of cap room and we'll have about 2 months to exclusively negotiate with him. The Jets should not act desperate and trade him just because there's an offer out there. He's only getting paid $6M this season. Extend him and have the big money years hit in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Who else are we going to spend that money on? Phillip Rivers? GTFOH

4. Our OL lost 2 starters, not 3. As far as I can tell, both those starters are still unemployed. That goes to show you that maybe they weren't as great as we had thought. FA has come to a crawl and there will be very few signings between now and the draft. After the draft, the Jets will likely bring one or even both back (at a reduced price than what they're asking for right now). In the meantime, we signed Willie Colon to a dirt cheap deal. If he's healthy, he'll be better than either Slausen or Moore were last season.

5. RBs have been average since Curtis retired. Good OL play can make any RB look decent. I believe Powell has what it takes to be the #1 guy.

6. Our LBs have been terrible for the last 2 years. I prefer what we have now (Harris, Davis, McIntyre, Rookie X) to what we had last season. McIntyre in particular.

7. Keller left because he needs to have a banner year in order to get a big contract next year. He wasn't going to get that with Sanchez, Garrard and McElroy throwing lawn darts to him. He's going the JCo route, hopefully it works out for him better than it did for Cotch.


where to start

2) holmes took a paycut, hill is a 2nd year 2nd round pick. he isn't on a short leash. no 2nd round pick is on a short leash year 2. and he did show flashes already. also its not the hacket WC offense. tis teh one that had big plays cause of speedsters like maclin and jackson.

Also i mention cruz cause we could trade for him. maybe the giants take a 4rd rounder knowing they can't resign him after this year?

4) i believe howard, slauson, and moore are all gone. only bring and mangold are left. so its still 3 starters we need to replace and lineman aren't easy to find
Get it done MT
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#5 User is offline   RUJebus Icon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 26 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Also i mention cruz cause we could trade for him. maybe the giants take a 4rd rounder knowing they can't resign him after this year?


The Giants placed a first round tender on Cruz, so any team that trades for him have to give up a 1st.
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#6 User is offline   Tebow15 Icon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 26 March 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

where to start

2) holmes took a paycut, hill is a 2nd year 2nd round pick. he isn't on a short leash. no 2nd round pick is on a short leash year 2. and he did show flashes already. also its not the hacket WC offense. tis teh one that had big plays cause of speedsters like maclin and jackson.

Also i mention cruz cause we could trade for him. maybe the giants take a 4rd rounder knowing they can't resign him after this year?

4) i believe howard, slauson, and moore are all gone. only bring and mangold are left. so its still 3 starters we need to replace and lineman aren't easy to find


howard is still here, your man crush showed flashes because that's all you can ever hope for is luck when u catch solely with your chest, and we should draft stedman bailey in the 2nd to 3rd round. He was projected 3rd last time i check but if he starts to climb in popularity take him in round 2 somehow. He is believed to have the best hands in the draft by some, and is a playmaker. He doesn't have great size but great size and no hands = Hill, which we already have. So I would rather have the decent sized guy who can actually run routes and catches the ball well so we can consistently make plays, over the guy who makes 4 plays a year cus he gets lucky enough to hold onto a ball bouncing off his chest plate.
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#7 User is offline   SecondHandJets Icon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 26 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

where to start

2) holmes took a paycut, hill is a 2nd year 2nd round pick. he isn't on a short leash. no 2nd round pick is on a short leash year 2. and he did show flashes already. also its not the hacket WC offense. tis teh one that had big plays cause of speedsters like maclin and jackson.


Hill showed nothing but straight line speed. He can get open deep and catch the ball once for every three tries. He's a terrible WR and we should honestly not expect anything from him this season. Let him develop at his own pace. He is absolutely the worst type of WR for the WC offerense because what he brings to the table (size/speed) and what he sorely lacks (hands/awareness/route running) are the polar opposites of what we need. He's going to be on a short leash because his GM is gone. Rex publicly said that he wasn't "for" the Hill pick last year. When the guy who drafted you is gone, your HC publicly distances himself from you and they bring in an OC who runs an offense that you're not suited for, your leash is short. It's that simple.

Maclin and Jackson caused havoc when they racked up YAC. Hill can't catch the damn ball. He's a track star learning to play football, not a football player with trackstar speed. Big difference.


View PostJetsfan115, on 26 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Also i mention cruz cause we could trade for him. maybe the giants take a 4rd rounder knowing they can't resign him after this year?


You must've smoked a milk crate full of some good shit. If the Giants were to shop Cruz, they'd get a lot more than a 4th rounder. WTF are you thinking? If the Giants called the Jets and said "Hey, how about Cruz for Hill and your 2nd round pick" we'd be dumb not to make that deal.

View PostJetsfan115, on 26 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

4) i believe howard, slauson, and moore are all gone. only bring and mangold are left. so its still 3 starters we need to replace and lineman aren't easy to find


Howard is on the roster. Slauson and Moore are still unemployed. One or even both will brought back... and not to mention Willie Colon who's probably better than both put together.
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#8 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostRUJebus, on 26 March 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

[/size]

The Giants placed a first round tender on Cruz, so any team that trades for him have to give up a 1st.


thats if we sign him. we could trade for him instead. giants put the tender to protect themselves
Get it done MT
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#9 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostTebow15, on 26 March 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

howard is still here, your man crush showed flashes because that's all you can ever hope for is luck when u catch solely with your chest, and we should draft stedman bailey in the 2nd to 3rd round. He was projected 3rd last time i check but if he starts to climb in popularity take him in round 2 somehow. He is believed to have the best hands in the draft by some, and is a playmaker. He doesn't have great size but great size and no hands = Hill, which we already have. So I would rather have the decent sized guy who can actually run routes and catches the ball well so we can consistently make plays, over the guy who makes 4 plays a year cus he gets lucky enough to hold onto a ball bouncing off his chest plate.


you say he sucks and is my man crush yet your screen name is tebow? a QB who is really a slow FB trying to play QB?
Get it done MT
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#10 User is offline   Tebow15 Icon

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 27 March 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

you say he sucks and is my man crush yet your screen name is tebow? a QB who is really a slow FB trying to play QB?


haha, how many times has Hill helped the Jets to the Playoffs? Tebow led his team in a turn around year which he only started half of. So I think I still win in the man crushes of the misfit toys.

Anywho, STAY ON TOPIC. Talking about silly screen names shows no relevance to this discussion. What are you ESPN? We are talking about wr's and you have to bring up Tebow. Seriously need to get a grip.

If you like the guy that's fine, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and catches a football like a duck, than its a duck. Hill is a long project that has no route running ability and zero confidence in his ability to catch a football with his hands. My like or dislike for any other player DOES NOT CHANGE THIS.

Now go on continuing to cry about Tebow because you CANNOT handle the REALITY that you have no way of proving me wrong in this manner. Punk move only used by those who lack the knowledge or the stance to defend their point.
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#11 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostTebow15, on 27 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

haha, how many times has Hill helped the Jets to the Playoffs? Tebow led his team in a turn around year which he only started half of. So I think I still win in the man crushes of the misfit toys.

Anywho, STAY ON TOPIC. Talking about silly screen names shows no relevance to this discussion. What are you ESPN? We are talking about wr's and you have to bring up Tebow. Seriously need to get a grip.

If you like the guy that's fine, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and catches a football like a duck, than its a duck. Hill is a long project that has no route running ability and zero confidence in his ability to catch a football with his hands. My like or dislike for any other player DOES NOT CHANGE THIS.

Now go on continuing to cry about Tebow because you CANNOT handle the REALITY that you have no way of proving me wrong in this manner. Punk move only used by those who lack the knowledge or the stance to defend their point.


what do i need to prove wrong? hill was a ROOKIE. very few rookie WRs do much. usually drafted WRs don't start becoming good until their 3rd year. he also was banged up a bit and missed time to do injuries. Did he drop some balls? yes he did, but as i pointed ut his drop% is the same as victor cruz, roddy white, and other really good WRs. it seems more obvious to us cause he didn't have 100 catches like those guys but the % si still the same.

We also had a horrible pass offense, sanchez wasn't accurate, we had very little talent at WR as hill was forced into the number 1 role when holmes went down and you really expect a rookie WR to beat constaint double teams, and no o-line that let the pass ruhs run by them and a QB with jitters and accuracy issues to put up big numbers?

You whole post is a joke and you seem angry for no reaosn. i won't even go into tebow as its irrelevant to hill i just found it amusing. hill has talent. he can run routes and he did consistently get open. i watched plays where they showed hill had his man burned and sanchez either threw it away, got sacked, or checked it down. it was hardly hills fault. he'll be out number 1 WR in 2 years and we'll hopefulyl by then have a real QB and better o-line and a supporting cast
Get it done MT
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:41 AM

View PostTebow15, on 27 March 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

haha, how many times has Hill helped the Jets to the Playoffs? Tebow led his team in a turn around year which he only started half of. So I think I still win in the man crushes of the misfit toys.

Anywho, STAY ON TOPIC. Talking about silly screen names shows no relevance to this discussion. What are you ESPN? We are talking about wr's and you have to bring up Tebow. Seriously need to get a grip.

If you like the guy that's fine, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and catches a football like a duck, than its a duck. Hill is a long project that has no route running ability and zero confidence in his ability to catch a football with his hands. My like or dislike for any other player DOES NOT CHANGE THIS.

Now go on continuing to cry about Tebow because you CANNOT handle the REALITY that you have no way of proving me wrong in this manner. Punk move only used by those who lack the knowledge or the stance to defend their point.


Can we just ban this angry clown already? Go get a blowjob or something dude...
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#13 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostHurricaneJet32, on 28 March 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Can we just ban this angry clown already? Go get a blowjob or something dude...


stupidity isn't worthy of bsnning. i feel that pointing and laughing works better. everyone should do this

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Get it done MT
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

See you next month, Toolcake
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 28 March 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

stupidity isn't worthy of bsnning. i feel that pointing and laughing works better. everyone should do this

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You're a moderator, you should be above this crap.
"My first thought was I looked and I saw who was second and [thought], 'Hey, I finally beat Belichick at something. I got him. I knew it would take time, but I finally got him.'"
--Rex Ryan on being voted the most overrated NFL head coach
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#16 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

View Postsexyrexy, on 28 March 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

You're a moderator, you should be above this crap.


i find it better then taking away his ability to post. There are many ways to skin a cat. my job is too keep things in line and not let them get out of hand, there are many ays to handle that
Get it done MT
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 28 March 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

i find it better then taking away his ability to post. There are many ways to skin a cat. my job is too keep things in line and not let them get out of hand, there are many ays to handle that


Yea... prodding a wild animal won't lead to things getting out of hand.
"My first thought was I looked and I saw who was second and [thought], 'Hey, I finally beat Belichick at something. I got him. I knew it would take time, but I finally got him.'"
--Rex Ryan on being voted the most overrated NFL head coach
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostJetsfan115, on 27 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

what do i need to prove wrong? hill was a ROOKIE. very few rookie WRs do much. usually drafted WRs don't start becoming good until their 3rd year. he also was banged up a bit and missed time to do injuries. Did he drop some balls? yes he did, but as i pointed ut his drop% is the same as victor cruz, roddy white, and other really good WRs. it seems more obvious to us cause he didn't have 100 catches like those guys but the % si still the same.


Bro you're really digging yourself into a hole with this Captain of the Cheerleaders for Stephen Hill shit. Lets skip the rhetoric on rookie WRs and get into the numbers. You're comparing Hill's percentages to Cruz and Roddy White? Okay, lets look at the numbers. Cruz dropped 12 out of 98 catchable balls (12.24%), Demaryius Thomas dropped 11 out of 105 (10.48%), Randall Cobb dropped 11 out of 91 (12.09). Now remember, Mrs. Hill, the total number is not "targets", it's catchable balls. Okay?

Here's your boy:
6 drops for a whopping 22.2% (via ProFootballFocus.com). Now we're only talking about a small sample size since even Sanchez realized that he's better off throwing to the dirt than throwing to Hill, BUT every statistic points to targets and drops rising parallel to each other. So at this rate, per 100 catchable attemps, Hill would be dropping AT LEAST 22 passes per year (10 more than Cruz).


View PostJetsfan115, on 27 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

We also had a horrible pass offense, sanchez wasn't accurate, we had very little talent at WR as hill was forced into the number 1 role when holmes went down and you really expect a rookie WR to beat constaint double teams, and no o-line that let the pass ruhs run by them and a QB with jitters and accuracy issues to put up big numbers?


Lets nip this in the bud right now: Hill was never teh #1 option. When Holmes went down, Kerley became #1. Hill was #2, then dropped to #3.

This is a hollow argument that I already addressed with teh "catchable" ball statistic, but just for shits and giggles, I really want to drive the point home so you can stop once and for all with this nonesense. Here's a list of the Top 7 WR with the smallest percentage of drops:


1. Jason Avant

2. Percy Harvin

3. DeSean Jackson

4. Mario Manningham

5. Anquan Boldin

6. Danny Amendola

7. Malcom Floyd

Since you're blaming Sanchez for Hill's dropped passed (even though, again, we're talking about "catchable balls"), are we going to laude Michael Vick (with 2 WRs on in the TOP 3!!!!), Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford (with Schotty as his OC) and Phillip Rivers (LMAO) as models of efficiency?

View PostJetsfan115, on 27 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

You whole post is a joke and you seem angry for no reaosn. i won't even go into tebow as its irrelevant to hill i just found it amusing. hill has talent. he can run routes and he did consistently get open. i watched plays where they showed hill had his man burned and sanchez either threw it away, got sacked, or checked it down. it was hardly hills fault. he'll be out number 1 WR in 2 years and we'll hopefulyl by then have a real QB and better o-line and a supporting cast


I don't what games you watched where Hill got wide open and Sanchez threw the ball away. I watched Hill struggle with everything, get hurt and if he wasn't a 2nd round draft pick, he'd be on the practice squad.
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

To be fair, Sanchez often screwed up when he had a wide open WR. He was horrible at scanning the field and finding these guys, which has caused a lot of frustration from players like Holmes.


And I have been warming up to the idea of drafting Tavon Austin. I think hes the most dynamic offensive player in this draft. I have read that hes a really hard worker as well, the only player at WVU that never missed a practice, something like that. Hes small, but he has elite quickness and speed. I see him being a game changer in the NFL like he was in college.
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostJetsfan0099, on 28 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

To be fair, Sanchez often screwed up when he had a wide open WR. He was horrible at scanning the field and finding these guys, which has caused a lot of frustration from players like Holmes.


And I have been warming up to the idea of drafting Tavon Austin. I think hes the most dynamic offensive player in this draft. I have read that hes a really hard worker as well, the only player at WVU that never missed a practice, something like that. Hes small, but he has elite quickness and speed. I see him being a game changer in the NFL like he was in college.


Nothing against Austin, but I just don't see us drafting a WR in the 1st with the amount of holes we have on defense.
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