NYJetsFan.com Forums: What If Pennington Hadn't Gotten Hurt? - NYJetsFan.com Forums

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER

MikeGangGree... Icon : (21 April 2015 - 08:59 AM) It's going to cost us 6 because we are going to have to outbid a bunch of teams
azjetfan Icon : (21 April 2015 - 09:52 AM) He is a good QB and I would love to have him. However IMO our 6 is not good value for us. Not to mention if he hates the idea of LA what is he going to think of NY? Contract situation would have to be worked out prior to trade as well. Extreme long shot to land Rivers. My money says we are more likely to land Brees.
azjetfan Icon : (21 April 2015 - 09:53 AM) which is still a very long shot
Chaos Icon : (21 April 2015 - 10:46 AM) he may just hate ownership. LT's comments yesterday was interesting.
Chaos Icon : (21 April 2015 - 10:47 AM) “I personally don’t think so,” Tomlinson said. “I really think this is a situation where Philip Rivers wants to move on. The reason why I think that and the reason why I feel like that is the Chargers have already approached Philip about doing another contract and he declined it. He doesn’t want anything to do with it; he didn’t even want to talk about another contract with the San Diego Chargers. That tells me that he’s thinking about moving on.”

“You never want to trade your franchise quarterback,” Tomlinson said, “that’s never the case. However, in this situation they might have no choice but to do so because I don’t know if Philip [Rivers] wants to be there anymore. I think he’s lost confidence in the organization. He’s seeing a lot of changes going on and the L.A. thing is valid; him not wanting to go to L.A., that is very valid, I can see that. So no, it doesn’t make sense to move on from Philip because he’s a franchise quarterback and he still has three to four very good years left.”
Chaos Icon : (21 April 2015 - 10:47 AM) missed the LA line. nvm. guess that is a legit concern.
Mr_Jet Icon : (21 April 2015 - 03:57 PM) He doesn't want to play for a franchise based in Los Angeles, but he'd be okay with playing for one based in New York City?
azjetfan Icon : (21 April 2015 - 04:28 PM) That's the point we have all been making.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:05 PM) Jets vs colts Monday night week2
MikeGangGree... Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:09 PM) Jets open at home against the browns
ganggreen2003 Icon : (21 April 2015 - 07:52 PM) Week 5 Bye after the London Game against the Dolphags
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) Rivers is likely going to Tennessee. Would LOVE to have him here but we likely won't make the trade. I'd easily give this year and next year
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 09:17 AM) 's first rounder for him
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 11:03 AM) IMO that's a steep price. I would swap this years first and a conditional 1st next year. Assuming we make the AFC Championship. That would be a 28-32nd pick. Otherwise a second.
MikeGangGree... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:07 PM) Yes 2 1st is a lot
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 01:10 PM) draft is next week, pumped
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:02 PM) What are thoughts on getting a RB in round 1? McShay's newest mock has us taking Gurley at 6. I don't think we should take him that high, but if we trade down and he's available I'd love to snag him, ACL and all. He's got an unreal skill set that, once healthy, will translate readily to the NFL. We're not getting a QB this year without paying a king's ransom, and unless we pay a ransom for a top guy I say ignore QB. I don't want us to take a Hundley or Petty type in the 2nd or 3rd round when we need other pieces (edge rush, OL)
azjetfan Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:09 PM) We can probably get Gordon in the second. I would pass at 6. If QB is not available a pass rusher will be. Our biggest needs are QB Pass rusher and Oline.
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 03:34 PM) any thourghts on shane ray? i see a lot of mocks have us drafting him
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:35 PM) last one i seen had us taking cooper, a RB, and hundley for our 1st 3 picks. not thrilled about that
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:38 PM) I don't like Gordon much. Not much of a receiver or blocker, ball security issues, tries to bounce outside too much, stuffed frequently. Gurley is in a league of his own
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:39 PM) Ray is pretty highly regarded. I'm betting he, Dupree, and Gregory will be our best options as well as edge rushers at 6, but I think that's too high for any of them
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 04:43 PM) Personally love Cooper, I know WR isn't our biggest need but he may be the most NFL ready guy in the Draft. If we stick to the 6th pick and Fowler, Beasley, and Mariota are gone, Cooper is the guy to get. I'd even take him over Beasley
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) i don't mind cooper. decker isn't number 1 IMO and marshall is expensive and getting old
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) and we never draft a WR high
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:45 PM) but o-line and QB are huge needs. i wouldn't take o-line 6th overall, but i think our 2nd or 3rd should be o-line
Jetsfan115 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 05:46 PM) we need an OLB as well. if we don't land a QB i'd like to see OLB adn O-line with 2 of our top 3 picks
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:16 PM) I agree on Deck, not a true #1 and he's had a checkered history with injuries. Marshall has 2, maybe 3 productive years left, which is why Cooper is an option
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:17 PM) And I agree with you on edge rusher & OL being bigger needs, but there really isn't a lineman I'd take at 6
Chadforpresi... Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:19 PM) So the way I see it, assuming Winston and Mariota are taken when we're at 6, that Fowler and Cooper are our best choices, and I'd be stunned if Fowler drops. I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if we land Cooper
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 08:47 PM) Apparently Tennessee wanted both of Cleveland's #1's and their 2nd rounder to move up to the #2 spot to get Mariota. Still think two 1st rounders are too much for Rivers? He makes us instant contenders and if we make a deep playoff run, it would really be this year's 1st and what equates to basically a 2nd rounder next year.
If not, get Cooper in the 1st and then grab Hundley in the 2nd and O-line in the 3rd.
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:05 PM) I wouldn't be upset with Cooper, hes a stud
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:06 PM) Not sure about Ray. Dupree is rising on the draft boards, ridiculously athletic for his size
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:07 PM) Dupree is 6'4 270 and has a amazing get off and runs a 4.5
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Problem is he doesn't have big sack numbers in college, I rather draft a productive guy high
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:09 PM) Vic Beasley is insanely athletic as well and was hugely productive in college, good bet is that Beasley will be a 10+ sack guy in the NFL
NJAzrael71 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:12 PM) Beasley should be a stud but he gets caught up hand fighting if he doesn't beat his guy quickly. He'll likely end up as an OLB but we'll see
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (22 April 2015 - 10:15 PM) He'd be a good fit in our defense, because we could use that speed guy on the outside
Chadforpresi... Icon : (Yesterday, 06:27 AM) I'd love Rivers, but we should be able to get him without paying 2 first rounders
Chadforpresi... Icon : (Yesterday, 06:29 AM) Lot of buzz about Dupree going top 10, most mocks I see have us getting either Ray or Dupree at 6. I prefer Dupree, like you said insane athlete for his size
Chadforpresi... Icon : (Yesterday, 06:30 AM) I like Beasley as well but I have a strong feeling Washington will snag him. But he is a small dude, it'd be nice if he'd add some bulk (in Clemson reportedly played around 230)
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 10:11 AM) @ArifHasanNFL

.@LanceZierlein says on http://sports790.com that Shane Ray will need surgery on foot, 5 months recovery. "Could drop out of first"
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 10:14 AM) this should change up the top 10
Chadforpresi... Icon : (Yesterday, 12:16 PM) Damn that's big. If he drops out of round 1 that could be a massive bargain for whoever gets him round 2. Dupree now looks more like the edge rusher we'd get at 6
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Today, 09:40 PM) TEH RANGERS
Resize Shouts Area

Page 1 of 1

What If Pennington Hadn't Gotten Hurt? article from GangGreenNation

#1 User is offline   Chaos Icon

  • D Coordinator
  • Icon
  • Group: Assistant Admin
  • Posts: 3,157
  • Joined: 30-March 05
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

http://www.ganggreen...on-hadnt-gotten

Quote

New York Jets What If Wednesday: What If Chad Pennington Hadn't Gotten Hurt?

We are going to begin a new feature here during the offseason on GGN. Every Wednesday we are going to look at certain moments that changed the course of New York Jets franchise history. It is inspired by a basketball book I recently read that looks at some of the ultimate "What if?" moments in the NBA. There is only one outcome that really matters, the one that actually happens. It is important, however, to understand that seemingly small events can drastically change the course of NFL history. It's also fun to imagine and discuss what could have happened. The first we will look at is how things might have been different for the Jets had Chad Pennington never injured his rotator cuff.

Generally from what I have seen, people best remember Chad Pennington for his last few years. He played decent football, but his arm was so weak that he could never be great. There is more to the story, however. It is easy to forget that arm was ravaged by two torn rotator cuff injuries. They decimated Pennington's arm strength. Early in his career, Pennington's throws had much more zip on them.

On November 7, 2004, Pennington was first injured against the Buffalo Bills. He missed the next three games before returning against the Texans and quarterbacking the Jets through the second round of the Playoffs. After the season, it was revealed Pennington had torn his rotator cuff. The Jets rushed him back into the lineup for Opening Day in 2005. Although the team would eventually finish 4-12 with half of its starters on IR by Week 17, many forget the Jets were a trendy Super Bowl pick coming off a surprise appearance in the Divisional Playoffs and splashy additions like Ty Law and Laveranues Coles. The Jets were going all in. The problem was Pennington did not look right from the outset. After playing shaky for three weeks, the Jets announced Pennington was out for the year following a Week 3 loss to the Jaguars. He had torn his rotator cuff again. One only wonders whether the Jets rushing him back when he clearly was not right contributed to that.

From that point on, Pennington was a limited quarterback. Never known for great arm strength to begin with, his throws looked like slow pitch softball tosses the rest of his career. These final memories of Pennington make it easy to forget how great he was before the injuries. I'm not exaggerating when I say he was great before the injuries either.

Pennington was inserted into the starting lineup in 2002. The Jets were 1-3. Vinny Testaverde was looking his age. Things looked bleak. All Pennington did was win 8 of his 12 starts that year and lead the Jets to the AFC East title. While doing it, he led the league in completion percentage, quarterback rating, and touchdown rate while posting the second lowest interception rating in the league and the second highest yards per pass attempt rate.

The numbers partially describe how great Pennington was before he got hurt. Before that fateful game in Buffalo, he had completed 65.7% of passes in his career. He had 49 touchdowns against 22 interceptions. He had a 94.7 rating. And his team had won 19 of his 30 starts. He was averaging 7.3 yards per attempt in a span where that put you in the top five in the league. When Pennington got hurt in 2004, he was completing 68.2% of his passes with 8 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, and a 99.1 rating. The Jets were 6-1 at the time.

The numbers do not tell the whole story, however. It wasn't just about them.

Everybody remembers how the Patriots won three of four Super Bowls from 2001 to 2004. Not many remember what happened the one year in that stretch when they did not go all the way. The Jets came to Foxborough Week 16. The Pats, Jets, and Dolphins were in a tight race for the AFC East title. A Patriots win would have eliminated the Jets and left New England in control of its own destiny. A Jets win kept Gang Green alive and put New England in deep trouble.

Pennington lit up Bill Belichick's defense that night to the tune of 22 for 33 for 286 yards, 3 touchdowns, and no interceptions. Tom Brady was 19 for 37 with 133 yards, 1 touchdown, and 1 interception. In the middle of the Patriots dynasty, Pennington went up to Foxborough in a huge spot, outplayed Brady, and carried the Jets to a win.

The next week, Pennington threw 4 touchdown passes as the Jets routed a Brett Favre led Packers team playing for the top seed in the NFC 42-17. This won the AFC East for the Jets. In the first round of the Playoffs, Pennington hit 19 of 25 for 222 yards and 3 more touchdowns as the Jets blew out Peyton Manning's Colts 41-0 before the dream season ended the next week in Oakland.

When Pennington returned from his first injury in 2004, he took the Jets on the road in the first round and hit 22 of 33 for 279 yards and 2 touchdowns as the Jets registered an overtime upset win against the Chargers. A week later against the Steelers, Pennington and the Jets took over the ball on their own 24 with the game tied 17-17 and 6:00 to go. The crowd in Pittsburgh was going nuts. Facing the number one defense in the NFL and a 15-1 team, Pennington hit passes for 22 and 17 yards to get the Jets into field goal range. Doug Brien missed the kick and then another as the Jets lost in overtime.

Far from being the limited guy with a ceiling, Pennington was a top statistical quarterback building a clutch big game resume. He looked like a guy headed for greatness.

If that still doesn't convince you, consider what Pennington did after his second torn rotator cuff. He still figured out how to play effectively with an arm hanging by a thread. Even though he could only make a fraction of NFL throws because of the damage to his arm, he still quarterbacked two more teams to the Playoffs and finished second in MVP voting in 2008. Just imagine what would have happened if he had stayed totally healthy.

What would have happened if Pennington hadn't gotten hurt? There is a short term possibility. People remember Doug Brien missing the two field goals. What happened leading up to the second miss is easily forgotten. The very play after the first miss, Ben Roethlisberger made an awful throw that was easily intercepted by David Barrett. The Jets took over on their own 37. They had a kicker whose confidence was shaky after a miss late in a game in Heinz Field, a stadium notorious for being tough on kickers. Instead of attacking to give Brien an easier kick, the Jets went into a shell. They ran it three times, had one safe pass to a running back, and an inexplicable kneel down, leaving Brien a difficult 43 yard kick. One cannot help but wonder whether Pennington's condition playing hurt entered the calculus. Would Herm Edwards have attacked with a healthy Pennington? Might the Jets have given Brien an easier kick he would have made? Even had the Jets won that game, they would have faced long odds going on the road to Foxborough for the AFC Championship Game. They would have had a shot, though. Divisional games are always tricky, and a blizzard swept through the New England area on the day of the game that could have been an equalizer. At the very least, a healthy Pennington would have given the Jets a puncher's chance.

Over the long run, I think there were two possibilities. The first is the Jets would have ridden an elite franchise quarterback to at least one Super Bowl, taking the Jets-Pats rivalry to the next level and setting off a never-ending debate in the Northeast about whether Brady or Pennington was better. If you dismiss this too quickly, you are quick to forget that 2002 game in Foxborough, the Joe Montana comparisons some really smart football people made of Pennington, and how it wasn't unreasonable at one point to say that Pennington might have a brighter future than Brady.

The second possibility is more disturbing and all too plausible. It stands to reason that Pennington would have always kept the Jets good enough for guys like Terry Bradway, Herm Edwards, and Paul Hackett to keep their jobs. These guys never would have done enough to surround Pennington with a championship team or maximize the roster's talent like what happened with Peyton Manning during the second half of his career with the Colts. The questions from fans about whether Pennington could ever win the big one that were beginning in 2004 (despite Pennington building a nice big game resume early in his career) would have been amplified over time, and Pennington's time with the Jets would have ended like Donovan McNabb's time with the Eagles where he was always good but never really appreciated the way he should have been because of the lack of a ring.

Let's think about either possibility. This means no Mark Sanchez, Mike Tannenbaum, Eric Mangini, or Rex Ryan. Tannenbaum probably would have stayed with the Jets in the front office. What about Mangini?

When the Jets hired him, it felt like he was a few years away from being a serious head coaching candidate. His one year as New England's defensive coordinator was undistinguished. Would he have grown into the job with more experience? Maybe. With him around, could the Pats have avoided the defensive meltdown they suffered in the second half of the AFC Championship Game in Indianapolis in 2006 and gone on to face a Rex Grossman quarterbacked Bears tema in the Super Bowl? Maybe. Would they have been able to get the big stop a year later against the Giants? Perhaps? Could a healthy Pennington have thrown the Pats one to two more Super Bowls? Possibly? What could the end result have been? In 2007, Dan Snyder throws a ton of money at the future coaching superstar, Mangini, the defensive coordinator of the only 19-0 team in history, to be the head coach of the Washington Redskins.

What about Rex Ryan? Without the Jets, he doesn't get a head coaching job in 2009. He stays with the Ravens only one year more. What about 2010? Only three teams changed coaches. Two of them went for big, established names, Mike Shanahan and Pete Carroll. The third was the Buffalo Bills. Ryan had a great resume and was the kind of cheap, first time coach the Bills would have liked. Could he have ended up coaching against the Jets in the AFC East. Maybe the Bills passed on him. Rex stays with the Ravens in 2010. Remember how Dolphins owner Stephen Ross was willing to dump Tony Sparano to make a splash hiring Jim Harbaugh. After he struck out with Harbaugh, does he turn to another headline-generating coach, Ryan? Could Rex have ended up coaching one of the Jets' most bitter rivals?

It is tough for me to say which of these outcomes was likely. I could have seen any of them happening or not happening. That's the fun in it. It doesn't really matter. All that matters is that Pennington did get hurt, and things turned out the way they did. It seems reasonable to conclude that Pennington's body might have been prone to breaking down given a terrible injury history through his career.

I can't help but wonder how things might have been different. The case of Chad Pennington leaves me wondering "What if" more than anything since I have started following the Jets. He was headed for greatness. You'll never convince me otherwise.

0

#2 User is offline   jet-man Icon

  • Drafted Rookie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: 04-September 05

  • NFL Team:

  • MLB:

Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:24 PM

Nice post.
0

#3 User is offline   SokeSleezy Icon

  • Pro Bowl
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 22-September 08

  • NFL Team:

Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

how i hate Doug Brien :ranting3:src="http://nyjetsfan.com/forum2/public/style_emoticons/default/ranting3.gif">
0

Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users