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Jets 0-2 vs bills this year. Does Rex Ryan survive the year?
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 10:52 AM) Mehta interprets the muzzling of Rex Ryan as proof positive that, once the season ends, Ryan will no longer be the team’s head coach. Apparently, the team fears that Rex would become more sympathetic in the eyes of the fan base if he’s dumped by the team at a time when his father is fighting a serious illness.
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:05 AM) Mehta is an idiot
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:25 AM) If colt McCoy lights it up do the jets make a move?
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:27 AM) I don't even care what they do for a while
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:28 AM) The team is a catastrophe
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:29 AM) I didn't see the game
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:29 AM) I remember the first bills game though I'm guessing it was like that with more sleeping in the end zone
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:32 AM) I'm with 0099...I hope they keep getting destroyed
Chaos Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:33 AM) it's a very Jets-esque move to sign McCoy if he does well
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 11:53 AM) I think they sign RGIII, Cutler, or Bradford
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 12:10 PM) why not all three
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 12:11 PM) Knowing this team, I wouldn't put that past them
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 02:07 PM) RAUL FOR QB
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 02:10 PM) the only real choice
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 02:10 PM) almost uefa time
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 02:11 PM) RAUL>SMITHSIAH, JUST ACCEPT IT
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 02:22 PM) FIRE IZDICK
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:07 PM) Rocking the atletico kit today 4-0 THE RAUL INFLUENCE
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:15 PM) Haha you should make that into some kind of logo and put it in your sig
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:15 PM) Sig***
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:19 PM) TEH RAUL INFLUENCE
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:29 PM) LUDOGRETS
santana Icon : (26 November 2014 - 04:34 PM) LUDOGORETS
MikeGangGree... Icon : (26 November 2014 - 08:29 PM) TEH IZDIK
MikeGangGree... Icon : (26 November 2014 - 08:29 PM) SUCK
MikeGangGree... Icon : (26 November 2014 - 08:29 PM) FOR
MikeGangGree... Icon : (26 November 2014 - 08:29 PM) THE
MikeGangGree... Icon : (26 November 2014 - 08:29 PM) DUCK
Mr_Jet Icon : (26 November 2014 - 09:32 PM) One of these days one of you are going to type it too fast and say "Suck the Duck".
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 09:41 PM) Hahaha
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (26 November 2014 - 10:45 PM) FIRE IDZIK
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (Yesterday, 02:04 AM) TEH POINT
Chaos Icon : (Yesterday, 11:14 AM) happy thanksgiving everyone!
ganggreen2003 Icon : (Yesterday, 04:53 PM) I hope Dirty Sanchez gets beat by the Cowgirls even though I would prefer to see a tie so neither team wins
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:00 PM) Look at what a great system can do for a QB, Sanchez looks like a different QB with the Eagles.
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:00 PM) Scanning the field and making quick decisions, I like how Chip has Sanchez throwing on the run which he was always great at.
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:01 PM) I really hope we finally bring in a good offensive minded coach.
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (Yesterday, 05:45 PM) I really can't wait for this season to be done and over with
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Today, 02:14 PM) SUCK THE DUCK!!!!
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Today, 02:14 PM) WOOOOOOOOOO
MikeGangGree... Icon : (Today, 02:14 PM) Happy Mr_Jet?
azjetfan Icon : (Today, 03:18 PM) Ray Rice has been reinstated!
azjetfan Icon : (Today, 03:19 PM) Sign him!
HarlemHxC814 Icon : (Today, 03:28 PM) Can he pass block?
Jetsfan0099 Icon : (Today, 06:23 PM) FIRE IDZIK
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Xbox 360 Or Ps3 Figure i'd start a new topic on this

#21 User is offline   Jetsfan115 Icon

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:28 PM

nintendo di it to draw a new crowd. think sbout it most adults don't know how to pick up a game controller but they can handle a remote. see the thread in the man show i made about forums. its funny. JCbizkit would be known as a cow accoriding to the list

a cow- a sony fanboy. called a cow cause sony is always milking them for extras that should be included. i love that one. like their 150 dollar hard drive add on so your paying twice the xbox money to have a similar feature. when will they learn. the way i see it is hey it aint my money
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#22 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 08:03 PM)
nintendo di it to draw a new crowd. think sbout it most adults don't know how to pick up a game controller but they can handle a remote. see the thread in the man show i made about forums. its funny. JCbizkit would be known as a cow accoriding to the list

a cow- a sony fanboy. called a cow cause sony is always milking them for extras that should be included. i love that one. like their 150 dollar hard drive add on so your paying twice the xbox money to have a similar feature. when will they learn. the way i see it is hey it aint my money


Actually my favorite Video game system ever is the Super Nintendo System, because I keep it old school. So please do not refer to me as a fanboy for the PS3 system. You just are mad that I do not agree with you on this subject. Instead of making insults, why not have an intelligent conversation about the systems, or is that too hard for you to do?
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 01:10 PM)
Actually my favorite Video game system ever is the Super Nintendo System, because I keep it old school. So please do not refer to me as a fanboy for the PS3 system. You just are mad that I do not agree with you on this subject. Instead of making insults, why not have an intelligent conversation about the systems, or is that too hard for you to do?


i tried to. i call u a fanbot cause u tried saying somehting about the xbox which was fals. i thin posted articles form 4 different sites (including IGN) saying the xbox outperformed the PS3 and u still somhow denied it. then said their not even game sites. first IGN is obviouslt and the other are tech sites and since its more of a tech issue (cause were not talking about software where talking about hardware) they hold just as much credence. i gave u evidence and u denied it. if u prefer the PS3 just say it. say i prefer the PS3 and will buy it regardless. don't try to justify your opinion as fact. the xbox360 is a better piece of hardware. the tests prive it. u can't argue with number. i posted like 5 links or so proving it and u didn't respond with anything except its not even from game sites. if u wanna have an intelligent talk about it lets do so but then u can't ignore the facts.
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#24 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 08:22 PM)
i tried to. i call u a fanbot cause u tried saying somehting about the xbox which was fals. i thin posted articles form 4 different sites (including IGN) saying the xbox outperformed the PS3 and u still somhow denied it. then said their not even game sites. first IGN is obviouslt and the other are tech sites and since its more of a tech issue (cause were not talking about software where talking about hardware) they hold just as much credence. i gave u evidence and u denied it. if u prefer the PS3 just say it. say i prefer the PS3 and will buy it regardless. don't try to justify your opinion as fact. the xbox360 is a better piece of hardware. the tests prive it. u can't argue with number. i posted like 5 links or so proving it and u didn't respond with anything except its not even from game sites. if u wanna have an intelligent talk about it lets do so but then u can't ignore the facts.


Actually, you seem a little lost, You kept posting those sites, and I wasn't replying because I was ignoring whatever you were saying. I denied absolutely nothing. I can argue that I think the PS3 is better then the xbox 360 because, all those posts where you brought your so called "proof", is all opinion, and what I have said about PS3 being the better overall system is all opinion, everything you have said about the xbox360 is all opinion. So maybe you should be getting your as you say "facts" straight before talking.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 01:31 PM)
Actually, you seem a little lost, You kept posting those sites, and I wasn't replying because I was ignoring whatever you were saying. I denied absolutely nothing. I can argue that I think the PS3 is better then the xbox 360 because, all those posts where you brought your so called "proof", is all opinion, and what I have said about PS3 being the better overall system is all opinion, everything you have said about the xbox360 is all opinion. So maybe you should be getting your as you say "facts" straight before talking.


Read the first post and look at the charts. Its side by side comparison test of speed etc. its all the numbers that the systems ran in tests. Its like racing cars yeah u can look at HP and torque etc but lets see it perform. If a car does a 0-60 in 6.0 and another does in 6.5 the 6.5 accelerates slower. That’s what those numbers showing therefore it is FACT! Not opinion.

Once again a cow
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#26 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 08:40 PM)
Read the first post and look at the charts. Its side by side comparison test of speed etc. its all the numbers that the systems ran in tests. Its like racing cars yeah u can look at HP and torque etc but lets see it perform. If a car does a 0-60 in 6.0 and another does  in 6.5 the 6.5 accelerates slower. That’s what those numbers showing therefore it is FACT! Not opinion.

Once again a cow


Once again, based on opinion, they know absolutely nothing. So keep posting your insulting bullshit that no one cares about. Just because your a 'Mod', I am not gonna just back away and agree with every damn thing that you say, it just doesn't go that way, so if anybody is being a fanboy, it is definatly you, for the xbox 360 system of course.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 01:48 PM)
Once again, based on opinion, they know absolutely nothing. So keep posting your insulting bullshit that no one cares about. Just because your a 'Mod', I am not gonna just back away and agree with every damn thing that you say, it just doesn't go that way, so if anybody is being a fanboy, it is definatly you, for the xbox 360 system of course.



show me where its opinon? its pure numbers ran in test. like i said if a car goes 0-60 in 6.0 it accelearets better then one that goes 0-60 in 6.5. thats a fact not opinion. thats what those numbers show. First u use IGN to try and prove your point then when i use them they know nothing? also nobody is asking u to back away and i don't take advantage that i'm a mod so i don't why you'd bring that up. also i owned all 3 but i traded in my PS2 and all the games a month ago cause i never used it really. espicially since GTA3 came out on xbox. i still have the game cube, xbox, ps1, super nintendo, sega gensys, a non working regualr nintendo lol., just to name a few. i always tried all of them oh and nintendo 64 as well. most likly in time i'll wind up with all 3 again. i bet u never even touched an xbox to make the judgement. i'm far from a fan boy cause earlier i said they'd be about the same then wehn i reserached it i found out that the 360 is better. here are the "facts" again.




XBOX 360 / PLAYSTATION 3 PERFORMANCE COMPARISON

SUMMARY
Now that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 specifications have been announced, it is possible to do a real world performance comparison of the two systems.

There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.

The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.

Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance

The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.

Memory System Bandwidth

The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.











The Xbox 360's CPU has more general purpose processing power because it has three general purpose cores, and Cell has just one.


Cell's claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.


The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.


Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.


DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS



CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.




Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.



DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS



CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.




Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.



DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS



CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.




Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.



GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.



Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.

RSX GPU

550 MHz

Independent vertex/pixel shaders

51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)

300M transistors

136 "shader operations" per clock
The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.

The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.


The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.


Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.


Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.

Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 232 million.



here is a link to the charts as well

http://media.xbox360...951/imgs_1.html



the charts show in pictures the numbers including the fact that the PS3 has 1/5th the bandwith of the xbox360
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#28 Guest_JCBizkit87_*

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:31 PM

And you actually really believe all of that, from a system that you have never played in your life. Dude, just give it up, you can never convince be to go and buy the Xbox 360, so mind as well forget about it.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 02:06 PM)
And you actually really believe all of that, from a system that you have never played in your life. Dude, just give it up, you can never convince be to go and buy the Xbox 360, so mind as well forget about it.


OK now IGn is gonna lie about the numbers of the systems? and what is your "PS3 is better hardware based on?" nothing!

i'm not trying to convince u anything. i told u to buy whichever system u like the games better for if u remember. its not like i make commision or some crap selling xboxes. i can care less which one u buy. it doens't effect me any. it just bothers me how u can ignore facts so easily. Were u a juror for the OJ trial by chance?
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 09:10 PM)
OK now IGn is gonna lie about the numbers of the systems? and what is your "PS3 is better hardware based on?" nothing!

i'm not trying to convince u anything. i told u to buy whichever system u like the games better for if u remember. its not like i make commision or some crap selling xboxes. i can care less which one u buy. it doens't effect me any. it just bothers me how u can ignore facts so easily. Were u a juror for the OJ trial by chance?


Well if you are not trying to convince me to buy the Xbox 360 system, then just do not insults me, when I perfer Sony's systems over the Xbox 360 system, that is all. Of course, you will keep with the insults though.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 02:26 PM)
Well if you are not trying to convince me to buy the Xbox 360 system, then just do not insults me, when I perfer Sony's systems over the Xbox 360 system, that is all. Of course, you will keep with the insults though.


no i wont cause thats fine. if u prefer one systems its fine cause thats your opinon. i don't prefer any system or company. all i care about is which games i'm gonna wnat and i'll get the system that has the games. right now i'm lenaing towards xbox cause i don't really care for any of the PS3 games i seen so far. i didn't insult u i just called u a fan boy and a cow(which is the name for a sony fan boy apparently). its not like i called u stupid or anything. all i was looking at was an apples to apples harware comparison and the 360 came out on top. that was my pnly point and i got frustarted when i posted the evidence and u ignored it the called it opinion. its like me saying look peyton manning is better then ryan leaf and your like no its not its opionion the numbers are lying. do u see how that could annoy someone?

oh and i have a question about your madden league? how do u have a league if u don't play on-line?
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#32 User is offline   TheUltimate Icon

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:17 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 05:35 PM)
no i wont cause thats fine. if u prefer one systems its fine cause thats your opinon. i don't prefer any system or company. all i care about is which games i'm gonna wnat and i'll get the system that has the games. right now i'm lenaing towards xbox cause i don't really care for any of the PS3 games i seen so far. i didn't insult u i just called u a fan boy and a cow(which is the name for a sony fan boy apparently). its not like i called u stupid or anything. all i was looking at was an apples to apples harware comparison and the 360 came out on top. that was my pnly point and i got frustarted when i posted the evidence and u ignored it the called it opinion. its like me saying look peyton manning is better then ryan leaf and your like no its not its opionion the numbers are lying. do u see how that could annoy someone?

oh and i have a question about your madden league? how do u have a league if u don't play on-line?


You make a good point in your last post, but I think it works against you. You say numbers don't lie, and you give us the comparision of Ryan Leaf in Peyton Manning, well I have a comparision for you. Trent Green always has better numbers then Tom Brady, but who would you rather Brady or Green? So you can't always go by numbers. The Leaf and Manning comparision is like comparing PS2 to Genisis, it is just a total mismatch.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (Jetsfan115 @ Nov 2 2005, 10:35 PM)
no i wont cause thats fine. if u prefer one systems its fine cause thats your opinon. i don't prefer any system or company. all i care about is which games i'm gonna wnat and i'll get the system that has the games. right now i'm lenaing towards xbox cause i don't really care for any of the PS3 games i seen so far. i didn't insult u i just called u a fan boy and a cow(which is the name for a sony fan boy apparently). its not like i called u stupid or anything. all i was looking at was an apples to apples harware comparison and the 360 came out on top. that was my pnly point and i got frustarted when i posted the evidence and u ignored it the called it opinion. its like me saying look peyton manning is better then ryan leaf and your like no its not its opionion the numbers are lying. do u see how that could annoy someone?

oh and i have a question about your madden league? how do u have a league if u don't play on-line?


it is an opinion though, that you think that the Xbox is the better system, sure those posts of your comparison stuff was not your opinion, but it was the opinion of the person that posted it.
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:42 PM

PLAYSTATION 3 BETTER THAN XBOX 360

Proof:

http://www.macworld....ocps3/index.php

Now, you see the difference between my links, and your links, mine comes from video game sites, and people who know what the hell they are talking about. This is coming straight from E3, ya know that thing that introduces you to the biggest games in the world.

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Jetsfan115: blowup.gif baghead.gif
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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:44 PM

QUOTE (JCBizkit87 @ Nov 2 2005, 03:53 PM)
it is an opinion though, that you think that the Xbox is the better system, sure those posts of your comparison stuff was not your opinion, but it was the opinion of the person that posted it.


i still don't understand what the opinion is that your seeing? i'm seeing hard data. i'm seeing all types of speeds and numbers not i feel this and i think that. i'm seeeing hard data. bandwith comparisons, processor speeds, etc.

its like saying i like the mustang better then the GTO so its faster but in reality the GTO is faster beased on tests. its ok to like one better enev if it doens't perform as well. thats was performance tests not opinions. like i said i'm picking the one that has the best games but will probably wind up with all 3. i think the PS3 controller looks hard to hold comfortably. the revolution controller is interersting. i wnat to try it. the xbox one looks similar to the controller-s so i'm used to it. i'm gonna miss my controller with the fan in it though
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#36 User is offline   penningtonpays Icon

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 09:13 PM

regardless with w/e the "experts" says im going with my altameter in the PS3, and overall the GTO is a shit car, if i had a choice between mustang n gto id pick the mustang. i dont see them making the GTOs past 2010. pontiac cars blow

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 02:10 AM

im goin ps3, no real reason. I i think x-box controllers are too chunky

just opinion though
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Posted 03 November 2005 - 09:48 AM

QUOTE (penningtonpays @ Nov 2 2005, 07:48 PM)
regardless with w/e the "experts" says im going with my altameter in the PS3, and overall the GTO is a shit car, if i had a choice between mustang n gto id pick the mustang. i dont see them making the GTOs past 2010. pontiac cars blow



once again popularity wins. actually the GTO is a way better car then the mustang. beter engine (it has the chevy corvette engine) better suspension, better brakes, more HP, more torque, more aerodynamic, built better (made in austrilla not america). and i can go on for days. anyway with that said yes pontiac makes shit cars but so do ford and every american company. thats why i'm gonna get an import
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#39 User is offline   Skeptable Icon

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 09:56 AM

JetFan115,
I have read all your ranting and raving about the new X-Box 360 and keep saying that IGN proves your point........ DID you even read the beginning of the article!!!!! It says that these are straight test numbers given to them by MICROSOFT. They did not conclude anything from the numbers or analyize it any way the copied and pasted the MICROSOFT report.

I am not saying the numbers aren't true but using IGN as a reference is simply untrue. Because they also have another article stating how much better ps3 is going to be.

Everything right now is speculation and it isn't even worth buying the first generation versions of the consoles anyway because they will improve with time and get the bugs out of them.

Personally I will wait to see the ACTUAL performance of both before I start reverberating some BS that the respective companies have published to prove that there system is better. READ BETWEEN THE LINES MAN!!!

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (Skeptable @ Nov 3 2005, 08:31 AM)
JetFan115,
I have read all your ranting and raving about the new X-Box 360 and keep saying that IGN proves your point........  DID you even read the beginning of the article!!!!!  It says that these are straight test numbers given to them by MICROSOFT.  They did not conclude anything from the numbers or analyize it any way the copied and pasted the MICROSOFT report. 

I am not saying the numbers aren't true but using IGN as a reference is simply untrue.  Because they also have another article stating how much better ps3 is going to be. 

Everything right now is speculation and it isn't even worth buying the first generation versions of the consoles anyway because they will improve with time and get the bugs out of them. 

Personally I will wait to see the ACTUAL performance of both before I start reverberating some BS that the respective companies have published to prove that there system is better.  READ BETWEEN THE LINES MAN!!!

Skeptable



1st off i hadn't noticed that the numbers were from microsoft. but then where did teh PS3 numbers come from? it still doens't change much cause numbers are numbers. like i said with cars if ford tells me the mustang has 300hp i'm not gonna take it to a shop and get it tested. i'll believe it has 300hp. i don't see how they would be allowed to lie about the numbers.

i do agree with the bugs as i did explain i had 2 xboxs crap out on me due to bugs and 1 PS2. one of my xboxs was fixed for free under the warrnety the other i had to shell out so really i bought 2 xboxs and 2 PS2s then traded in my PS2. the only system that didin't have bugs was the gamecube. my original one is still running strong. (although it doesn't get the useage the xbox does).

the first gen everything usually has bugs so it expected from game systems to cars and so on. also on the mustang thing u know starting in 07 mustangs (and all other fords) will be using pontiac transmissions? ford transmissions suck. my mom had 2 trucks (explorer and bronco) in which the tranny went before 100,000 miles. not good. i have a pontiac (which i hate kinda) that has broken down alot on me but has been running good for a while now so hopefully it won't break down again. i'm gonna trade it in for an import in less then a year though.


back on topic of systems. my bets advice (and what i'm gonna do) is buy the one that has better games. games are all opinion (for example everyone loves halo but i hate the game and think it sucks). i'm gonna buy the one that has the better game. and as far as 360's go their basically sold out now. u can't buy one until early next year. even if u order online today.
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